Discussion:
The Jewish question
(too old to reply)
Elena Nakashima
2003-11-20 21:12:41 UTC
Permalink
Are Jews good or bad? The fairest answer would be neither; they are
like anyone else, there are good ones and bad ones.
I agree that this is true.
However, ethnic and racial groups seem to possess certain
characteristics, advantages and disadvantages, and other qualities in
quantities uniquely different than among other groups.
For example, the Germanic and Japanese character seems to be driven
toward order and efficiency, cleanliness and precision. This can be
good when they are behaving and dangerous when organized for
aggression.
After all, how dangerous were a bunch of disorganized Italians when
compared to Germans?

It appears the general Jewish trait is cosmopolitanism, and to a
lesser degree, radicalism. Granted, there has been powerful
conservative Jewish impulses but these were confined among Jews and
Jewish issues. In other words, Orthodox Jews stick to their own kind,
their issues are their issues, and they neither care to nor want
interference or influence from or on the world outside.

So, the Jewish elements that do affect gentiles is Jewish
cosmopolitanism and radicalism. An orthodox Jew doesn't try to spread
Orthodox Judaism to other peoples but a radical Jews have tried to
spread communism. Orthodox Jews have little impact on the culture of
goyim but secularized Jews in the arts, media, and politics have left
an indelible mark of their vision and character. Another aspect of
Jewishness is their greater intellectual prowess that leads to rapid
achievements in such fields as academia, business, arts, and politics.

This influence has been both liberating and progressive as well as
destabilizing and alienating, especially for people who who came to
resent the newly arrived mass of immigrants'(say from Russia to
Germany or France)sudden and drastic impact on what the natives
consider their culture and destiny.

Of course this has been complicated by the fact that some Jews were
assimilationists and others became diehard radicals, some became
pro-government while others anti-government, and some became
capitalist tycoons while others became communist revolutionaries.
But, in the significant cases of Jewish capitalism and communism what
one senses is a loyalty that goes beyond national boundaries, with a
little or half-hearted respect for the traditions of the native
gentile populations. As many traditional values are stupid and
oppressive this Jewish influence can be welcomed as modern and
enlightening. But, can people live by ideology alone, whether it be
rooted in money or sense of justice?

I think we associate certain European countries with anti-semitism but
I think every nation and people have a potential for such prejudices,
especially if the nation happens to be homogenouos with a clear sense
of togetherness or a volkish sensibilty. America is ideal for Jews
because while many ethnic groups might distrust or even hate Jews, the
diverse gentile populations don't trust eachother enough to join
forces against the powerful Jewish elite. While the goyim might resent
and envy Jewish achievements and power in United States, it's highly
unlikely that Southern Baptists, Italian American Catholics, Blacks,
Hispanics, and Asians are likely to join forces in a united front
against the Jew. And, why should they if they believe in the American
ideal of meritocracy? If Jews have achieved riches and powers way
beyond their numbers thru hard work and superior intellect, isn't this
the American way. Of course, some don't agree and we have affirmative
action programs which limit, say, NY Jews from entering Ivy League
schools in greater numbers in favor of less intelligent gentiles from
Midwest smalltowns. Of course, some gentiles fear that because Jews
are more intelligent, Jews feel as though they have the right to
sneer, poke fun, trash, and desecrate the cultures of others. The Marx
Brothers movie Duck Soup is a perfect example of this unease gentiles
might feel, that Jews are nihilists who are above conventional
morality, just as Einstein's theory of relativitiy went beyond
conventional Newtonian understanding of the universe. When it's
simply a matter of scientific theory it doesn't matter much but things
of social impact are important in the minds of people. Some would
argue that Jews make fun of themselves as much as any other, and that
other peoples also have a long tradition of comedy and satire; after
all Jonathan Swift wasn't Jewish. But, Jewish humor seems wilder and
more aggressive because it's seen as criticism from an outsider.

Anyway, while I don't think Jews aren't any better or worse than
others, I think their impact on cultures the world over is
significantly DIFFERENT in quality and nuance than the influences of
other cultures. Also, because of the high caliber of Jewish
intellectuality, I think their influences, good and bad, become far
more consequential than that of others. For example, consider the
influence of former Stalinist historian Eric Hobsbawm. If he was just
another lame gentile historian he would have been shuffled aside as
academic hack. But, because of his brilliance, his pro-communist evil
has infiltrated into the unsuspecting minds of many.

I think one of the reasons why there was some clash between Japanese
and Jews in the early 90s was due to their different cultural
approaches and set of values. Japanese by and large are
traditionalist, volkish, and hierarchical whereas Jewish influence and
power in the world are cosmopolitan, supra-national,
anti-traditionalist, and liberal(except in the case of Israel which
can't afford tolerance in the present state of being surrounded by
Arab aggressors). Of course, one can argue that Japan is reasonably a
liberal and modern nation, and that its economy is world-based.
However, if we go beyond business(which in Japan is clannishly
organized and mercantilist anyway) and political expediency(Japanese
dependence on America, for example), Japanese still retain much of
their cultural impulses of the past. Western observers say that
Japanese still have a village mentality, dwell on their uniqueness,
their sense of honor, and define themselves in contrast to other
peoples. They are like Orthodox Jews but then again, Orthodox Jews are
not what defines Jewish power and influence in the world.
In contrast to the Japanese, secular Jews represent transcending
national boundaries, dismantling traditional modes of behavior and
allegiances. To the Japanese, Jews represent a very small percentage
of Americans with undue influence on American politics, culture, and
business. To even conceive of letting themselves be at the mercy of a
minority group upsets, even disgusts, the Japanese. Japanese think of
America as the great Yankee power, the empire of Douglas MacArthur and
John Wayne, now brought low by a cabal of disloyal internationalist
Jews who manipulate the American system for their narrow interests;
they see a once mighty gentile Christian nation led around on a leash
by its clever Jewish master who uses its power to open its national
borders and promote miscegenation to wipe out the racial identity and
pride that once distinguished the nation of Commodore Perry and
Charles Lindbergh. At its height, Japanese even wrote idiotic
best-sellers like IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE JEWS YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORLD,
which was so paranoid and looney that it even claimed Roosevelt was
Jewish. But it was a best-seller and was advertised in Japan's most
respected newspapers, and academics who knew better didn't protest
such slanderous spread of lies.
But, Jews have also seen Japan as a threat in the 80s. They saw the
rise of a homogenous, traditionalist, and fiercely nationalistic
society growing into a major power and what Japan represented was the
power of racial and national unity, of the volkish values, of
discipline and hierarchy, of conservative values; in other words, what
a nation can achieve by sticking together and controlling their own
destiny. Jews fear the Japanese as a bunch of feudalistic and
clannish tribe of modern day samurai who smile at and shakes hands
with the world but have no real value other than group loyality. They
see Japan as a male-dominated society where the population is kept
docile as children thru strick social ordering and thru mindless
soma-like influence of manga, videogames, and pachinko parlors which
keep the minds of people off important issues; in other words, stupid
child-like Japanese women would rather play pachinko all day or dye
their hair pink than march in the streets and demand real justice and
equality. Was Japanbashing in the media merely the manifestation of
American gentile prejudice or was there a Jewish element in the sheer
virulence it reached at its height in late 80s and early 90s?

Anyway, I think all such fears are nonsensical and let's all just get
along together and not nitpick about our differences and focus instead
on our common humanity. God Bless.
Bill
2003-11-20 21:23:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elena Nakashima
Are Jews good or bad? The fairest answer would be neither; they are
like anyone else, there are good ones and bad ones.
I agree that this is true.
However, ethnic and racial groups seem to possess certain
characteristics, advantages and disadvantages, and other qualities in
quantities uniquely different than among other groups.
For example, the Germanic and Japanese character seems to be driven
toward order and efficiency, cleanliness and precision. This can be
good when they are behaving and dangerous when organized for
aggression.
After all, how dangerous were a bunch of disorganized Italians when
compared to Germans?
It appears the general Jewish trait is cosmopolitanism, and to a
lesser degree, radicalism. Granted, there has been powerful
conservative Jewish impulses but these were confined among Jews and
Jewish issues. In other words, Orthodox Jews stick to their own kind,
their issues are their issues, and they neither care to nor want
interference or influence from or on the world outside.
So, the Jewish elements that do affect gentiles is Jewish
cosmopolitanism and radicalism. An orthodox Jew doesn't try to spread
Orthodox Judaism to other peoples but a radical Jews have tried to
spread communism. Orthodox Jews have little impact on the culture of
goyim but secularized Jews in the arts, media, and politics have left
an indelible mark of their vision and character. Another aspect of
Jewishness is their greater intellectual prowess that leads to rapid
achievements in such fields as academia, business, arts, and politics.
This influence has been both liberating and progressive as well as
destabilizing and alienating, especially for people who who came to
resent the newly arrived mass of immigrants'(say from Russia to
Germany or France)sudden and drastic impact on what the natives
consider their culture and destiny.
Of course this has been complicated by the fact that some Jews were
assimilationists and others became diehard radicals, some became
pro-government while others anti-government, and some became
capitalist tycoons while others became communist revolutionaries.
But, in the significant cases of Jewish capitalism and communism what
one senses is a loyalty that goes beyond national boundaries, with a
little or half-hearted respect for the traditions of the native
gentile populations. As many traditional values are stupid and
oppressive this Jewish influence can be welcomed as modern and
enlightening. But, can people live by ideology alone, whether it be
rooted in money or sense of justice?
I think we associate certain European countries with anti-semitism but
I think every nation and people have a potential for such prejudices,
especially if the nation happens to be homogenouos with a clear sense
of togetherness or a volkish sensibilty. America is ideal for Jews
because while many ethnic groups might distrust or even hate Jews, the
diverse gentile populations don't trust eachother enough to join
forces against the powerful Jewish elite. While the goyim might resent
and envy Jewish achievements and power in United States, it's highly
unlikely that Southern Baptists, Italian American Catholics, Blacks,
Hispanics, and Asians are likely to join forces in a united front
against the Jew. And, why should they if they believe in the American
ideal of meritocracy? If Jews have achieved riches and powers way
beyond their numbers thru hard work and superior intellect, isn't this
the American way. Of course, some don't agree and we have affirmative
action programs which limit, say, NY Jews from entering Ivy League
schools in greater numbers in favor of less intelligent gentiles from
Midwest smalltowns. Of course, some gentiles fear that because Jews
are more intelligent, Jews feel as though they have the right to
sneer, poke fun, trash, and desecrate the cultures of others. The Marx
Brothers movie Duck Soup is a perfect example of this unease gentiles
might feel, that Jews are nihilists who are above conventional
morality, just as Einstein's theory of relativitiy went beyond
conventional Newtonian understanding of the universe. When it's
simply a matter of scientific theory it doesn't matter much but things
of social impact are important in the minds of people. Some would
argue that Jews make fun of themselves as much as any other, and that
other peoples also have a long tradition of comedy and satire; after
all Jonathan Swift wasn't Jewish. But, Jewish humor seems wilder and
more aggressive because it's seen as criticism from an outsider.
Anyway, while I don't think Jews aren't any better or worse than
others, I think their impact on cultures the world over is
significantly DIFFERENT in quality and nuance than the influences of
other cultures. Also, because of the high caliber of Jewish
intellectuality, I think their influences, good and bad, become far
more consequential than that of others. For example, consider the
influence of former Stalinist historian Eric Hobsbawm. If he was just
another lame gentile historian he would have been shuffled aside as
academic hack. But, because of his brilliance, his pro-communist evil
has infiltrated into the unsuspecting minds of many.
I think one of the reasons why there was some clash between Japanese
and Jews in the early 90s was due to their different cultural
approaches and set of values. Japanese by and large are
traditionalist, volkish, and hierarchical whereas Jewish influence and
power in the world are cosmopolitan, supra-national,
anti-traditionalist, and liberal(except in the case of Israel which
can't afford tolerance in the present state of being surrounded by
Arab aggressors). Of course, one can argue that Japan is reasonably a
liberal and modern nation, and that its economy is world-based.
However, if we go beyond business(which in Japan is clannishly
organized and mercantilist anyway) and political expediency(Japanese
dependence on America, for example), Japanese still retain much of
their cultural impulses of the past. Western observers say that
Japanese still have a village mentality, dwell on their uniqueness,
their sense of honor, and define themselves in contrast to other
peoples. They are like Orthodox Jews but then again, Orthodox Jews are
not what defines Jewish power and influence in the world.
In contrast to the Japanese, secular Jews represent transcending
national boundaries, dismantling traditional modes of behavior and
allegiances. To the Japanese, Jews represent a very small percentage
of Americans with undue influence on American politics, culture, and
business. To even conceive of letting themselves be at the mercy of a
minority group upsets, even disgusts, the Japanese. Japanese think of
America as the great Yankee power, the empire of Douglas MacArthur and
John Wayne, now brought low by a cabal of disloyal internationalist
Jews who manipulate the American system for their narrow interests;
they see a once mighty gentile Christian nation led around on a leash
by its clever Jewish master who uses its power to open its national
borders and promote miscegenation to wipe out the racial identity and
pride that once distinguished the nation of Commodore Perry and
Charles Lindbergh. At its height, Japanese even wrote idiotic
best-sellers like IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE JEWS YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORLD,
which was so paranoid and looney that it even claimed Roosevelt was
Jewish. But it was a best-seller and was advertised in Japan's most
respected newspapers, and academics who knew better didn't protest
such slanderous spread of lies.
But, Jews have also seen Japan as a threat in the 80s. They saw the
rise of a homogenous, traditionalist, and fiercely nationalistic
society growing into a major power and what Japan represented was the
power of racial and national unity, of the volkish values, of
discipline and hierarchy, of conservative values; in other words, what
a nation can achieve by sticking together and controlling their own
destiny. Jews fear the Japanese as a bunch of feudalistic and
clannish tribe of modern day samurai who smile at and shakes hands
with the world but have no real value other than group loyality. They
see Japan as a male-dominated society where the population is kept
docile as children thru strick social ordering and thru mindless
soma-like influence of manga, videogames, and pachinko parlors which
keep the minds of people off important issues; in other words, stupid
child-like Japanese women would rather play pachinko all day or dye
their hair pink than march in the streets and demand real justice and
equality. Was Japanbashing in the media merely the manifestation of
American gentile prejudice or was there a Jewish element in the sheer
virulence it reached at its height in late 80s and early 90s?
Anyway, I think all such fears are nonsensical and let's all just get
along together and not nitpick about our differences and focus instead
on our common humanity. God Bless.
If it's nonsensical, why did you waste so much time discussing it?
Musashi
2003-11-20 21:25:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elena Nakashima
Are Jews good or bad? The fairest answer would be neither; they are
like anyone else, there are good ones and bad ones.
I agree that this is true.....
Are you a troll?
If so, could you please change your name?

Thank you
Your Pal Brian
2003-11-20 22:23:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Musashi
Are you a troll?
The word is nudnik.

Brian
John Harkness
2003-11-20 22:33:27 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:23:01 GMT, Your Pal Brian
Post by Your Pal Brian
Post by Musashi
Are you a troll?
The word is nudnik.
Brian
You misspelled "schmuck"

John Harkness
Kingo Gondo
2003-11-20 23:35:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Harkness
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:23:01 GMT, Your Pal Brian
Post by Your Pal Brian
Post by Musashi
Are you a troll?
The word is nudnik.
Brian
You misspelled "schmuck"
John Harkness
You misspelled "no-life cretin".
Stuart Wilkes' mom
2003-11-22 19:39:51 UTC
Permalink
I thought the Jewish question was "why do they eat all that horrible food"?
Post by Musashi
Post by Elena Nakashima
Are Jews good or bad? The fairest answer would be neither; they are
like anyone else, there are good ones and bad ones.
I agree that this is true.....
Are you a troll?
If so, could you please change your name?
Thank you
Elena Nakashima
2003-11-23 01:17:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
I thought the Jewish question was "why do they eat all that horrible food"?
But there's a very simple solution to that one; go to a Chinese restaurant.
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by Musashi
Post by Elena Nakashima
Are Jews good or bad? The fairest answer would be neither; they are
like anyone else, there are good ones and bad ones.
I agree that this is true.....
Are you a troll?
If so, could you please change your name?
Thank you
Stuart Wilkes' mom
2003-11-23 01:59:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elena Nakashima
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
I thought the Jewish question was "why do they eat all that horrible food"?
But there's a very simple solution to that one; go to a Chinese restaurant.
Do they have super-sized gefelte fish at the drive-through?
Post by Elena Nakashima
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by Musashi
Post by Elena Nakashima
Are Jews good or bad? The fairest answer would be neither; they are
like anyone else, there are good ones and bad ones.
I agree that this is true.....
Are you a troll?
If so, could you please change your name?
Thank you
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
2003-11-24 00:30:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
I thought the Jewish question was "why do they eat all that horrible food"?
I may somewhere still have the label from a sandwich label that caused a
laugh from my jewish coworker here at UNC.
"Kosher Ham and Cheese on Jewish Rye"
It also came packaged with a slice of dill pickle.
He wasn't offended, just amused.
--
Rostyk
Stuart Wilkes' mom
2003-11-24 02:20:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
I thought the Jewish question was "why do they eat all that horrible food"?
I may somewhere still have the label from a sandwich label that caused a
laugh from my jewish coworker here at UNC.
"Kosher Ham and Cheese on Jewish Rye"
It also came packaged with a slice of dill pickle.
He wasn't offended, just amused.
--
Rostyk
Good thing he didn't eat the Kosher ham. He'd be stuck in hell with all the
Catholics that ate meat on Friday.
captain!
2003-11-24 10:13:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
I thought the Jewish question was "why do they eat all that horrible food"?
I may somewhere still have the label from a sandwich label that caused a
laugh from my jewish coworker here at UNC.
"Kosher Ham and Cheese on Jewish Rye"
It also came packaged with a slice of dill pickle.
He wasn't offended, just amused.
--
Rostyk
lol: jewish rye.
Cindy
2003-11-24 13:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
I thought the Jewish question was "why do they eat all that horrible food"?
I may somewhere still have the label from a sandwich label that caused a
laugh from my jewish coworker here at UNC.
"Kosher Ham
That sounds like pork
Post by Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
and Cheese on
That sounds like a milk product
Post by Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
Jewish Rye"
I think I've heard it somewhere.
Post by Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
It also came packaged with a slice of dill pickle.
ha!
Post by Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
He wasn't offended, just amused.
Did he eat it?
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
2003-11-25 06:24:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cindy
Post by Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
I thought the Jewish question was "why do they eat all that horrible food"?
I may somewhere still have the label from a sandwich label that caused
a laugh from my jewish coworker here at UNC.
"Kosher Ham
That sounds like pork
Post by Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
and Cheese on
That sounds like a milk product
Post by Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
Jewish Rye"
I think I've heard it somewhere.
Post by Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
It also came packaged with a slice of dill pickle.
ha!
Post by Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
He wasn't offended, just amused.
Did he eat it?
I don't recall. I know that I did, fairly often.
He prefered sea food subs, with shrimp and crab in yucky mayo,
and chopped lettuce and onions, washed down with a Coke.
Cindy
2003-11-25 12:54:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
Post by Cindy
Did he eat it?
I don't recall. I know that I did, fairly often.
He prefered sea food subs, with shrimp and crab in yucky mayo,
and chopped lettuce and onions, washed down with a Coke.
Shrimp and crab don't sound very kosher either. I feel kinda sorry for
Jewish people that they have to follow such a strict diet rule. I
believe this is one of the reasons that make the Jewish people
outstandingly demanding sometimes. However, once you know that they are
doing it for a religious reason, maybe you want to cooperate with them
and meet their needs. I should say: Jews -- the most misunderstood
people in the world.

The Jewish culture has been very fascinating to me; however, I am
positive that I can not stand obeying the rules and contracts. I should
be glad to be a gentile.
cindys
2003-11-25 23:20:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cindy
Post by Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
Post by Cindy
Did he eat it?
I don't recall. I know that I did, fairly often.
He prefered sea food subs, with shrimp and crab in yucky mayo,
and chopped lettuce and onions, washed down with a Coke.
Shrimp and crab don't sound very kosher either. I feel kinda sorry for
Jewish people that they have to follow such a strict diet rule. I
believe this is one of the reasons that make the Jewish people
outstandingly demanding sometimes. However, once you know that they are
doing it for a religious reason, maybe you want to cooperate with them
and meet their needs. I should say: Jews -- the most misunderstood
people in the world.
The Jewish culture has been very fascinating to me; however, I am
positive that I can not stand obeying the rules and contracts. I should
be glad to be a gentile.
------------
You may find this difficult to believe, but I honestly don't believe we feel
deprived at all. There is no kosher police, and if I were to eat ham or
shrimp or whatever, no one is going to knock down my door and drag me away.
I believe that most Jews who follow the kosher dietary laws do so willingly
and happily because we believe that this is what God wants us to do (follow
the laws of the torah) and that in so doing, it will bring us closer to Him.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Stuart Wilkes' mom
2003-11-25 23:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by cindys
Post by Cindy
Post by Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
Post by Cindy
Did he eat it?
I don't recall. I know that I did, fairly often.
He prefered sea food subs, with shrimp and crab in yucky mayo,
and chopped lettuce and onions, washed down with a Coke.
Shrimp and crab don't sound very kosher either. I feel kinda sorry for
Jewish people that they have to follow such a strict diet rule. I
believe this is one of the reasons that make the Jewish people
outstandingly demanding sometimes. However, once you know that they are
doing it for a religious reason, maybe you want to cooperate with them
and meet their needs. I should say: Jews -- the most misunderstood
people in the world.
The Jewish culture has been very fascinating to me; however, I am
positive that I can not stand obeying the rules and contracts. I should
be glad to be a gentile.
------------
You may find this difficult to believe, but I honestly don't believe we feel
deprived at all. There is no kosher police, and if I were to eat ham or
shrimp or whatever, no one is going to knock down my door and drag me away.
I believe that most Jews who follow the kosher dietary laws do so willingly
and happily because we believe that this is what God wants us to do (follow
the laws of the torah) and that in so doing, it will bring us closer to Him.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
If you have to not eat ham to be closer to God, I suggest you flush that
stupid religion of yours down the toilet. God don't f*ing care if you eat
ham!
cindys
2003-11-26 01:20:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
You may find this difficult to believe, but I honestly don't believe we
feel
Post by cindys
deprived at all. There is no kosher police, and if I were to eat ham or
shrimp or whatever, no one is going to knock down my door and drag me
away.
Post by cindys
I believe that most Jews who follow the kosher dietary laws do so
willingly
Post by cindys
and happily because we believe that this is what God wants us to do
(follow
Post by cindys
the laws of the torah) and that in so doing, it will bring us closer to
Him.
Post by cindys
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
If you have to not eat ham to be closer to God, I suggest you flush that
stupid religion of yours down the toilet. God don't f*ing care if you eat
ham!
---------------
Maybe if you stopped eating ham, you wouldn't have a mouth like a pig.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Stuart Wilkes' mom
2003-11-26 01:38:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
You may find this difficult to believe, but I honestly don't believe we
feel
Post by cindys
deprived at all. There is no kosher police, and if I were to eat ham or
shrimp or whatever, no one is going to knock down my door and drag me
away.
Post by cindys
I believe that most Jews who follow the kosher dietary laws do so
willingly
Post by cindys
and happily because we believe that this is what God wants us to do
(follow
Post by cindys
the laws of the torah) and that in so doing, it will bring us closer to
Him.
Post by cindys
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
If you have to not eat ham to be closer to God, I suggest you flush that
stupid religion of yours down the toilet. God don't f*ing care if you eat
ham!
---------------
Maybe if you stopped eating ham, you wouldn't have a mouth like a pig.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
If you have a brain, use it. All religion is festered by ignorance.
yechidah
2003-11-26 02:13:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
You may find this difficult to believe, but I honestly don't believe
we
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
feel
Post by cindys
deprived at all. There is no kosher police, and if I were to eat ham
or
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
shrimp or whatever, no one is going to knock down my door and drag me
away.
Post by cindys
I believe that most Jews who follow the kosher dietary laws do so
willingly
Post by cindys
and happily because we believe that this is what God wants us to do
(follow
Post by cindys
the laws of the torah) and that in so doing, it will bring us closer
to
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
Him.
Post by cindys
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
If you have to not eat ham to be closer to God, I suggest you flush that
stupid religion of yours down the toilet. God don't f*ing care if you
eat
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
ham!
---------------
Maybe if you stopped eating ham, you wouldn't have a mouth like a pig.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
If you have a brain, use it. All religion is festered by ignorance.
Silly man. It's precisely because we have the Laws to protect us and shelter
us from undue psychic and spirirtual harm, that Jewish minds are so
brilliant. When we practice Torah we are protected, enriched and
mproved - body, mind and soul.


YS


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Stuart Wilkes' mom
2003-11-26 12:23:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by yechidah
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
You may find this difficult to believe, but I honestly don't believe
we
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
feel
Post by cindys
deprived at all. There is no kosher police, and if I were to eat ham
or
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
shrimp or whatever, no one is going to knock down my door and drag
me
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
away.
Post by cindys
I believe that most Jews who follow the kosher dietary laws do so
willingly
Post by cindys
and happily because we believe that this is what God wants us to do
(follow
Post by cindys
the laws of the torah) and that in so doing, it will bring us closer
to
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
Him.
Post by cindys
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
If you have to not eat ham to be closer to God, I suggest you flush
that
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
stupid religion of yours down the toilet. God don't f*ing care if you
eat
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
ham!
---------------
Maybe if you stopped eating ham, you wouldn't have a mouth like a pig.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
If you have a brain, use it. All religion is festered by ignorance.
Silly man. It's precisely because we have the Laws to protect us and shelter
us from undue psychic and spirirtual harm, that Jewish minds are so
brilliant. When we practice Torah we are protected, enriched and
mproved - body, mind and soul.
YS
Why not just take a multi-vitamin?
Post by yechidah
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yechidah
2003-11-26 17:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elena Nakashima
Post by yechidah
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
You may find this difficult to believe, but I honestly don't
believe
Post by yechidah
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
we
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
feel
Post by cindys
deprived at all. There is no kosher police, and if I were to eat
ham
Post by yechidah
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
or
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
shrimp or whatever, no one is going to knock down my door and drag
me
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
away.
Post by cindys
I believe that most Jews who follow the kosher dietary laws do so
willingly
Post by cindys
and happily because we believe that this is what God wants us to
do
Post by yechidah
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
(follow
Post by cindys
the laws of the torah) and that in so doing, it will bring us
closer
Post by yechidah
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
to
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
Him.
Post by cindys
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
If you have to not eat ham to be closer to God, I suggest you flush
that
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
stupid religion of yours down the toilet. God don't f*ing care if
you
Post by yechidah
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
eat
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
ham!
---------------
Maybe if you stopped eating ham, you wouldn't have a mouth like a pig.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
If you have a brain, use it. All religion is festered by ignorance.
Silly man. It's precisely because we have the Laws to protect us and
shelter
Post by yechidah
us from undue psychic and spirirtual harm, that Jewish minds are so
brilliant. When we practice Torah we are protected, enriched and
mproved - body, mind and soul.
YS
Why not just take a multi-vitamin?
We do - it's called Vitamin T.


YS


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v***@oyama.ca
2003-11-26 01:39:49 UTC
Permalink
In article <9dTwb.148246$***@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, cstein1
@rochester.rr.com says...
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
You may find this difficult to believe, but I honestly don't believe we
feel
Post by cindys
deprived at all. There is no kosher police, and if I were to eat ham or
shrimp or whatever, no one is going to knock down my door and drag me
away.
Post by cindys
I believe that most Jews who follow the kosher dietary laws do so
willingly
Post by cindys
and happily because we believe that this is what God wants us to do
(follow
Post by cindys
the laws of the torah) and that in so doing, it will bring us closer to
Him.
Post by cindys
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
If you have to not eat ham to be closer to God, I suggest you flush that
stupid religion of yours down the toilet. God don't f*ing care if you eat
ham!
---------------
Maybe if you stopped eating ham, you wouldn't have a mouth like a pig.
Best regards,
I doubt a pig would say god is indifferent to whether or not people eat
ham. No doubt, the religion followed by most pigs specifies eating ham
as a mortal sin or equivalent. ;-)

Verno
A stickler for accuracy.
Cindy
2003-11-26 18:49:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
If you have to not eat ham to be closer to God, I suggest you flush that
stupid religion of yours down the toilet. God don't f*ing care if you eat
ham!
Even though you are a Christian and believe so, leave the Jewish people
alone! You don't mess with other people's norm.

How about my telling you to stop eating pizza and coke to decrease your
lipocytosis? Overeating and overdrinking are not what God wants from
you because they are abusing your health.
Stuart Wilkes' mom
2003-11-26 19:55:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cindy
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
If you have to not eat ham to be closer to God, I suggest you flush that
stupid religion of yours down the toilet. God don't f*ing care if you eat
ham!
Even though you are a Christian and believe so, leave the Jewish people
alone! You don't mess with other people's norm.
How about my telling you to stop eating pizza and coke to decrease your
lipocytosis? Overeating and overdrinking are not what God wants from
you because they are abusing your health.
Eating pizza doesn't make you closer to God either and he really couldn't
care less if it's pepperoni or mushroom.
yechidah
2003-11-26 20:07:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Eating pizza doesn't make you closer to God either and he really couldn't
care less if it's pepperoni or mushroom.
When is the last time you actually bothered yourself to ask Him what He
wants from humanity - period?

YS




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Stuart Wilkes' mom
2003-11-26 22:42:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by yechidah
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Eating pizza doesn't make you closer to God either and he really couldn't
care less if it's pepperoni or mushroom.
When is the last time you actually bothered yourself to ask Him what He
wants from humanity - period?
YS
God doesn't want anything from humanity. Why do you think humans are soooo
important to God? Are you just being pompous and arrogant or are you just
afraid that maybe there is nothing after death and God just really doesn't
give a poop (about you)?

Would it be so damaging to your ego to know that you don't count for
anything? Is your brain so small that you can not understand that you are
not the most important thing in the universe?

The simple fact is your brain IS TOO SMALL to comprehend the universe so you
invent religion to ease your mind. Whatever turns ya on but when you're dead
and all there is is nothing, don't say I didn't tell ya so.
Post by yechidah
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Cindy
2003-11-26 23:22:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
God doesn't want anything from humanity.
When did God say that? It is what you are saying rather than God, isn't
it?
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Why do you think humans are soooo
important to God? Are you just being pompous and arrogant or are you just
afraid that maybe there is nothing after death and God just really doesn't
give a poop (about you)?
Would it be so damaging to your ego to know that you don't count for
anything? Is your brain so small that you can not understand that you are
not the most important thing in the universe?
I think your limbic system has been awfully damaged by too much
endorphin broken into the blood-brain barrier.
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
The simple fact is your brain IS TOO SMALL to comprehend the universe so you
invent religion to ease your mind. Whatever turns ya on but when you're dead
and all there is is nothing, don't say I didn't tell ya so.
If you die, you are lucky. Probably, you will be vegetable and get
hooked up with the life-sustaining device, and you will live forever.
yechidah
2003-11-27 00:55:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by yechidah
When is the last time you actually bothered yourself to ask Him what He
wants from humanity - period?
YS
God doesn't want anything from humanity.
<bzzzzt> Wrong answer.


G-d gave us the world to operate. He gave us the Roadmap - the Torah, He
gave us the Light - His Love, He gave us the Key - the Kabbalah and He
graced us 10 G-dly attributes (including the Will) to carry out His plan.

YS



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Makoto Taniguchi
2003-11-27 07:42:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by yechidah
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by yechidah
When is the last time you actually bothered yourself to ask Him what He
wants from humanity - period?
YS
God doesn't want anything from humanity.
<bzzzzt> Wrong answer.
G-d gave us the world to operate. He gave us the Roadmap - the Torah, He
gave us the Light - His Love, He gave us the Key - the Kabbalah and He
graced us 10 G-dly attributes (including the Will) to carry out His plan.
YS
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God can't ask for favours. Why? because he doesn't exist.
yechidah
2003-11-27 18:03:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Makoto Taniguchi
Post by yechidah
G-d gave us the world to operate. He gave us the Roadmap - the Torah, He
gave us the Light - His Love, He gave us the Key - the Kabbalah and He
graced us 10 G-dly attributes (including the Will) to carry out His plan.
God can't ask for favours. Why? because he doesn't exist.
Really and truly sad. It's like seeing a one of those Romanian orphans never
receiving love or attention. Eventually they just start rocking back and
forth, banging their heads on the bars of their cribs with a glazed over
look in their eyes.

So tell me...

Why were you born? Why were you put here on earth? What is your purpose in
life?


YS


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Cindy
2003-11-27 19:03:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by yechidah
Post by Makoto Taniguchi
Post by yechidah
G-d gave us the world to operate. He gave us the Roadmap - the Torah, He
gave us the Light - His Love, He gave us the Key - the Kabbalah and He
graced us 10 G-dly attributes (including the Will) to carry out His
plan.
Post by Makoto Taniguchi
God can't ask for favours. Why? because he doesn't exist.
Really and truly sad. It's like seeing a one of those Romanian orphans never
receiving love or attention. Eventually they just start rocking back and
forth, banging their heads on the bars of their cribs with a glazed over
look in their eyes.
So tell me...
If you are talking to a Japanese person about "love", their first
perception is most likely "sex" or "eros" type of love. I don't think
they will get it that "love" has so many meanings.
Post by yechidah
Why were you born? Why were you put here on earth? What is your purpose in
life?
I think "god" to the Japanese people is ... money. Money certainly
gives you a lot of options, but you can't buy happiness (Walker)
h***@brazee.net
2003-11-28 02:55:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by yechidah
So tell me...
Why were you born? Why were you put here on earth? What is your purpose in
life?
I'm curious - you ask this question, being sad that he doesn't have an
answer because he's an atheist.

So why were YOU born? Why were you put on earth? What is your purpose in
life?
yechidah
2003-11-28 03:00:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@brazee.net
Post by yechidah
So tell me...
Why were you born? Why were you put here on earth? What is your purpose in
life?
I'm curious - you ask this question, being sad that he doesn't have an
answer because he's an atheist.
So why were YOU born? Why were you put on earth? What is your purpose in
life?
Every Jew is born to serve Hashem, to make a dwelling place for him on
Earth, to reveal light where there was darkness, to teach and be taught.

YS



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Stuart Wilkes' mom
2003-11-27 11:32:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by yechidah
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by yechidah
When is the last time you actually bothered yourself to ask Him what He
wants from humanity - period?
YS
God doesn't want anything from humanity.
<bzzzzt> Wrong answer.
If you're mentally constrained, it's the wrong answer. If you're mind is
open, there is no wrong answer.
Post by yechidah
G-d gave us the world to operate. He gave us the Roadmap - the Torah, He
gave us the Light - His Love, He gave us the Key - the Kabbalah and He
graced us 10 G-dly attributes (including the Will) to carry out His plan.
YS
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Stephen Cooke
2003-11-26 20:21:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Eating pizza doesn't make you closer to God either and he really couldn't
care less if it's pepperoni or mushroom.
If they're the right kind of mushrooms, it could bring you closer to God.

swac
Squeegieing my third eye.
Susan Cohen
2003-11-28 07:53:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cindy
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
If you have to not eat ham to be closer to God, I suggest you flush that
stupid religion of yours down the toilet. God don't f*ing care if you eat
ham!
Even though you are a Christian and believe so, leave the Jewish people
alone! You don't mess with other people's norm.
He's only exposting his own ignorance.

Susan
Post by Cindy
How about my telling you to stop eating pizza and coke to decrease your
lipocytosis? Overeating and overdrinking are not what God wants from
you because they are abusing your health.
Cindy
2003-11-26 02:06:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by cindys
You may find this difficult to believe, but I honestly don't believe we feel
deprived at all. There is no kosher police, and if I were to eat ham or
shrimp or whatever, no one is going to knock down my door and drag me away.
Oh, I see.
Post by cindys
I believe that most Jews who follow the kosher dietary laws do so willingly
and happily because we believe that this is what God wants us to do (follow
the laws of the torah) and that in so doing, it will bring us closer to Him.
Best regards,
I respect that. It is good that you have set laws. I found them quite
practical in any era. In my culture (Japanese), all laws have to be
created by people. I don't know what the lawmakers refer to, but it
would be better if they followed something that never changes and covers
extensive area such as child disciplines.
d***@aol.com
2003-11-26 00:06:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cindy
Post by Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
Did he eat it?> >>
I don't recall. I know that I did, fairly often.
He prefered sea food subs, with shrimp and crab in yucky mayo,
and chopped lettuce and onions, washed down with a Coke.>
Shrimp and crab don't sound very kosher either. I feel kinda sorry for
Jewish people that they have to follow such a strict diet rule. I
believe this is one of the reasons that make the Jewish people
outstandingly demanding sometimes. However, once you know that they are
doing it for a religious reason, maybe you want to cooperate with them
and meet their needs. I should say: Jews -- the most misunderstood
people in the world.> The Jewish culture has been very fascinating to me; however, I am > positive that I can not stand obeying the rules and contracts. I should > be glad to be a gentile.>>
Cindy, 75% of the 5.7 billion worth of KOSHER foods sold each year in
the US, is purchased by Gentiles!! Jews (wealthiest ethnic group in
the US) comprise a measly 2% of the American population. Of that tiny
number, the overwhelming majority of Jews are secular. Where does this
zany notion come from that all Jews are required to practice KOSHER!?
Unless one chooses to adhere to a strict KOSHER diet, or one is born
into a religious sect of Judaism (most influential religion in the
world), there is no set law that says one has to do so.
Regardless, KOSHER (cool, clean, fit) is so popular in America,
"Ball Park" (non-Kosher meat manufacturer) now has their own line of
KOSHER franks. I have yet to hear of one knowing individual who hasn't
fallen in love with KOSHER deli!? Not one who hasn't tasted HEBREW
NATIONAL cold cuts!? KOSHER is free of contaminants, impurities &
animal cruelty. It's still the healthiest food on the planet! Do you
think it's just a coincidence that almost every case of foodborne
illness continues to occur in non-KOSHER meats!?
Sorry, but unless one is living out in the Appalachians, KOSHER
cuisine is stinkin' delish!ehehe From BLINTZES to BAGELS, from KNISHES
to KUGEL, from HOT PASTRAMI ON RYE to COW'S TONGUE, from LATKES to
LOX, from MATZOH BALL SOUP that melts in your mouth to GEFILTE FISH
(most types of fish are acceptable by KOSHER law) that puts hair on
your chest, from STUFFED DERMA (KISHKA) to a BIG KOSHER DILL PICKLE,
there's absolutely nothing restrictive about the taste of KOSHER
foods!
In NYC (greatest Jewish city in the world - hub of culture, finance,
fashion, retail, trade, cuisine, music, theatre, media &
communications), we have KOSHER Chinese restaurants! I kid you not!ehe
In the end, moderation is ultimately the key! Pork tastes good, but
it's still one the worst foods that your body can consume!! -D, NYC "I
believe that eating pork makes people stupid!" eh - DAVID STEINBERG
(sweet Jew, comedian/actor/filmmaker)
Stuart Wilkes' mom
2003-11-26 01:38:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@aol.com
Post by Cindy
Post by Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
Did he eat it?> >>
I don't recall. I know that I did, fairly often.
He prefered sea food subs, with shrimp and crab in yucky mayo,
and chopped lettuce and onions, washed down with a Coke.>
Shrimp and crab don't sound very kosher either. I feel kinda sorry for
Jewish people that they have to follow such a strict diet rule. I
believe this is one of the reasons that make the Jewish people
outstandingly demanding sometimes. However, once you know that they are
doing it for a religious reason, maybe you want to cooperate with them
and meet their needs. I should say: Jews -- the most misunderstood
people in the world.> The Jewish culture has been very fascinating to
me; however, I am > positive that I can not stand obeying the rules and
contracts. I should > be glad to be a gentile.>>
Post by d***@aol.com
Cindy, 75% of the 5.7 billion worth of KOSHER foods sold each year in
the US, is purchased by Gentiles!! Jews (wealthiest ethnic group in
the US) comprise a measly 2% of the American population. Of that tiny
number, the overwhelming majority of Jews are secular. Where does this
zany notion come from that all Jews are required to practice KOSHER!?
Unless one chooses to adhere to a strict KOSHER diet, or one is born
into a religious sect of Judaism (most influential religion in the
world), there is no set law that says one has to do so.
Regardless, KOSHER (cool, clean, fit) is so popular in America,
"Ball Park" (non-Kosher meat manufacturer) now has their own line of
KOSHER franks.
Big news except that they've had that product as long as I can remember.

I have yet to hear of one knowing individual who hasn't
Post by d***@aol.com
fallen in love with KOSHER deli!? Not one who hasn't tasted HEBREW
NATIONAL cold cuts!? KOSHER is free of contaminants, impurities &
animal cruelty. It's still the healthiest food on the planet!
That's what they'd like you to believe. Much of it is pure scam and there's
nothing that anyone can do to stop it. FDA has no legal requirements for
claiming a food is kosher. All you have to do is pay some rabbi a few bucks
and voila! it's all of the sudden kosher! Don't be so naive.

Do you
Post by d***@aol.com
think it's just a coincidence that almost every case of foodborne
illness continues to occur in non-KOSHER meats!?
Sorry, but unless one is living out in the Appalachians, KOSHER
cuisine is stinkin' delish!ehehe From BLINTZES to BAGELS, from KNISHES
to KUGEL, from HOT PASTRAMI ON RYE to COW'S TONGUE, from LATKES to
LOX, from MATZOH BALL SOUP that melts in your mouth to GEFILTE FISH
(most types of fish are acceptable by KOSHER law) that puts hair on
your chest,
Maybe Cindy's chest is already hairy enough?

from STUFFED DERMA (KISHKA) to a BIG KOSHER DILL PICKLE,
Post by d***@aol.com
there's absolutely nothing restrictive about the taste of KOSHER
foods!
In NYC (greatest Jewish city in the world - hub of culture, finance,
fashion, retail, trade, cuisine, music, theatre, media &
communications), we have KOSHER Chinese restaurants! I kid you not!ehe
In the end, moderation is ultimately the key! Pork tastes good, but
it's still one the worst foods that your body can consume!! -D, NYC "I
believe that eating pork makes people stupid!" eh - DAVID STEINBERG
(sweet Jew, comedian/actor/filmmaker)
cindys
2003-11-26 05:09:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
That's what they'd like you to believe. Much of it is pure scam and there's
nothing that anyone can do to stop it. FDA has no legal requirements for
claiming a food is kosher. All you have to do is pay some rabbi a few bucks
and voila! it's all of the sudden kosher! Don't be so naive.
----------
What an unbelievable liar you are.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Stuart Wilkes' mom
2003-11-26 12:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elena Nakashima
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
That's what they'd like you to believe. Much of it is pure scam and
there's
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
nothing that anyone can do to stop it. FDA has no legal requirements for
claiming a food is kosher. All you have to do is pay some rabbi a few
bucks
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
and voila! it's all of the sudden kosher! Don't be so naive.
----------
What an unbelievable liar you are.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
In Tel Aviv Mc Donalds, you can get kosher bacon and egg Mc Muffins.
Richard Schultz
2003-11-26 14:24:51 UTC
Permalink
In rec.arts.movies.past-films Stuart Wilkes' mom <***@jhgjhgjhg.com> wrote:

: In Tel Aviv Mc Donalds, you can get kosher bacon and egg Mc Muffins.

To the best of my knowledge, no McDonald's in Israel is kosher.

-----
Richard Schultz ***@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing."
cindys
2003-11-27 22:41:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by Elena Nakashima
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
That's what they'd like you to believe. Much of it is pure scam and
there's
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
nothing that anyone can do to stop it. FDA has no legal requirements for
claiming a food is kosher. All you have to do is pay some rabbi a few
bucks
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
and voila! it's all of the sudden kosher! Don't be so naive.
----------
What an unbelievable liar you are.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
In Tel Aviv Mc Donalds, you can get kosher bacon and egg Mc Muffins.
--------------
And just when you think it couldn't get worse, he tells another lie. While
there may be some kosher bacon substitutes, there is no such thing as
"kosher" bacon.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Cindy
2003-11-26 02:13:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@aol.com
In NYC (greatest Jewish city in the world - hub of culture, finance,
I know, I know, been there, done that. My favorite place is the
Japanese restaurant "Sapporo" on 7th and 49th.
Post by d***@aol.com
fashion, retail, trade, cuisine, music, theatre, media &
communications), we have KOSHER Chinese restaurants!
Must be vegetarian...
Post by d***@aol.com
I kid you not!ehe
In the end, moderation is ultimately the key! Pork tastes good,
Holy pork?

but
Post by d***@aol.com
it's still one the worst foods that your body can consume!! -D, NYC "I
believe that eating pork makes people stupid!" eh - DAVID STEINBERG
(sweet Jew, comedian/actor/filmmaker)
But how can you turkey? Such an ugly bird! We don't eat turkey in
Japan. Do you eat turkey?
cindys
2003-11-26 02:33:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cindy
Post by d***@aol.com
In NYC (greatest Jewish city in the world - hub of culture, finance,
I know, I know, been there, done that. My favorite place is the
Japanese restaurant "Sapporo" on 7th and 49th.
Post by d***@aol.com
fashion, retail, trade, cuisine, music, theatre, media &
communications), we have KOSHER Chinese restaurants!
Must be vegetarian...
-------------------
No. The various dishes are prepared with kosher meats under the supervision
of a rabbi. There are also some kosher vegetarian restaurants, but just
because a restaurant is vegetarian does not mean it's kosher. (In order for
a vegetarian restaurant to be kosher, it must follow the same standards as a
non-vegetarian restaurant: Every single product used in the restaurant must
have kosher certification, all of the vegetables have to be inspected for
bugs, the cooking process must be performed at least in part by a Jewish
person, and a rabbi must supervise the whole operation.)
Best regards,
--Cindy S.
Tilly
2003-11-26 06:57:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@aol.com
Cindy, 75% of the 5.7 billion worth of KOSHER foods sold each year in
the US, is purchased by Gentiles!! Jews (wealthiest ethnic group in
the US) comprise a measly 2% of the American population. Of that tiny
number, the overwhelming majority of Jews are secular. Where does this
zany notion come from that all Jews are required to practice KOSHER!?
Unless one chooses to adhere to a strict KOSHER diet, or one is born
into a religious sect of Judaism (most influential religion in the
world), there is no set law that says one has to do so.
Regardless, KOSHER (cool, clean, fit) is so popular in America,
"Ball Park" (non-Kosher meat manufacturer) now has their own line of
KOSHER franks. I have yet to hear of one knowing individual who hasn't
fallen in love with KOSHER deli!? Not one who hasn't tasted HEBREW
NATIONAL cold cuts!? KOSHER is free of contaminants, impurities &
animal cruelty. It's still the healthiest food on the planet! Do you
think it's just a coincidence that almost every case of foodborne
illness continues to occur in non-KOSHER meats!?
Sorry, but unless one is living out in the Appalachians, KOSHER
cuisine is stinkin' delish!ehehe From BLINTZES to BAGELS, from KNISHES
to KUGEL, from HOT PASTRAMI ON RYE to COW'S TONGUE, from LATKES to
LOX, from MATZOH BALL SOUP that melts in your mouth to GEFILTE FISH
(most types of fish are acceptable by KOSHER law) that puts hair on
your chest, from STUFFED DERMA (KISHKA) to a BIG KOSHER DILL PICKLE,
there's absolutely nothing restrictive about the taste of KOSHER
foods!
In NYC (greatest Jewish city in the world - hub of culture, finance,
fashion, retail, trade, cuisine, music, theatre, media &
communications), we have KOSHER Chinese restaurants! I kid you not!ehe
In the end, moderation is ultimately the key! Pork tastes good, but
it's still one the worst foods that your body can consume!! -D, NYC "I
believe that eating pork makes people stupid!" eh - DAVID STEINBERG
(sweet Jew, comedian/actor/filmmaker)
MMMmmmmmm. You are making me hungry.
It really isn't tough eating Kosher, but is much easier is Israel or the US
where it is easier to get than here.

Tilly

--
***@hotmail.com
Tilly
2003-11-26 12:20:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tilly
MMMmmmmmm. You are making me hungry.
It really isn't tough eating Kosher, but is much easier is Israel or
the US where it is easier to get than here.
Tilly
Correction:

It really isn't tough eating Kosher,however it is much easier to keep Kosher
in Israel and the US.Kosher food is harder to get here, but you can get it
if you know where to go.

Tilly

--
***@hotmail.com
Cindy
2003-11-26 13:00:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tilly
Post by Tilly
MMMmmmmmm. You are making me hungry.
It really isn't tough eating Kosher, but is much easier is Israel or
the US where it is easier to get than here.
Tilly
It really isn't tough eating Kosher,however it is much easier to keep Kosher
in Israel and the US.Kosher food is harder to get here, but you can get it
if you know where to go.
According to a Jewish passenger who sat next to me in an airplane, when
the animals are killed for food, it has to be supervised by a Jewish
person. When food is processed, it has to be supervised by a Jewish
person to ensure the food is not touching unclean items. Thus where
Jewish people live, there are Jewish communities.
Tilly
2003-11-26 14:27:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cindy
According to a Jewish passenger who sat next to me in an airplane, when
the animals are killed for food, it has to be supervised by a Jewish
person. When food is processed, it has to be supervised by a Jewish
person to ensure the food is not touching unclean items. Thus where
Jewish people live, there are Jewish communities.
Yes we have it all and a lot comes from Australia, the US and Israel.

Tilly

--
***@hotmail.com
Tilly
2003-11-26 14:46:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tilly
Post by Cindy
According to a Jewish passenger who sat next to me in an airplane, when
the animals are killed for food, it has to be supervised by a Jewish
person. When food is processed, it has to be supervised by a Jewish
person to ensure the food is not touching unclean items. Thus where
Jewish people live, there are Jewish communities.
Yes we have it all and a lot comes from Australia, the US and Israel.
Tilly
We don't have Kosher delis and there is only one Kosher restaurant.

Tilly
--
***@hotmail.com
cindys
2003-11-26 15:29:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cindy
Post by Tilly
Post by Tilly
MMMmmmmmm. You are making me hungry.
It really isn't tough eating Kosher, but is much easier is Israel or
the US where it is easier to get than here.
Tilly
It really isn't tough eating Kosher,however it is much easier to keep Kosher
in Israel and the US.Kosher food is harder to get here, but you can get it
if you know where to go.
According to a Jewish passenger who sat next to me in an airplane, when
the animals are killed for food, it has to be supervised by a Jewish
person. When food is processed, it has to be supervised by a Jewish
person to ensure the food is not touching unclean items. Thus where
Jewish people live, there are Jewish communities.
---------------
This is basically correct. The animal must be slaughtered by a "shochet" (a
person who is specially trained and is often a rabbi) who uses a slaughter
method called "shechita." Without going into a lot of details, the Jewish
method for slaughter involves a single slash cut to the jugular, using a
knife with a smooth blade. The purpose is to cause instantaneous death to
minimize pain to the animal. Then the blood is drained from the animal (as
mandated by the verse in the torah that we are not permitted to eat the
blood of the animal, because its "life" is in its blood). The internal
organs of the animal are inspected by another rabbi to ensure that the
animal was not suffering from a disease process which would render it treif
(non kosher). There are a number of possible things the rabbi could find
during the inspection process which would render the cow unacceptable for
kosher consumption but would still be permitted by the FDA. Animals in this
category are sent to a non-kosher slaughter house and sold for non-kosher.

Next, the meat is sold to a butcher shop (which is also under the
supervision of a rabbi) where it is cut up and is "kashered." This is a
salting and rinsing process to remove more blood. In the past, the meat was
cut up in the butcher ship but the salting and soaking process was typically
performed by the housewife once she got the meat home. I still have a
grooved board that my grandfather made for my grandmother, which she would
lie at an angle on the sink. She would put the salted meat on it and the
blood would run down the grooves into the sink. Nowadays, the butcher
generally does the salting and rinsing right in the shop. Liver is an
exception to this process in that it has so much blood that it is impossible
to remove it all. Therefore, all liver must be eaten broiled (broiling is
another method for removing blood in lieu of salting and rinsing). If a
Jewish person wants to eat fried liver, he must broil the liver first and
then can fry it afterward.

For the record, at no time does the rabbi "bless" any of the meat (or any
other food). This is a common misconception. The rabbi's role is strictly a
supervisory one and his sole function with respect to the kosher food
industry is to ensure that the food is in keeping with the standards of the
Jewish dietary laws. A kosher symbol on a package assures that these
standards have been met.

Well, this was probably more than you wanted to know...but thank you for
your interest. On this group, the vast majority of the posters are
antisemites, so you are like a breath of fresh air.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Cindy
2003-11-26 19:25:52 UTC
Permalink
cindys wrote:

<snip the interesting Jewish tradition>
Post by cindys
For the record, at no time does the rabbi "bless" any of the meat (or any
other food). This is a common misconception. The rabbi's role is strictly a
supervisory one and his sole function with respect to the kosher food
industry is to ensure that the food is in keeping with the standards of the
Jewish dietary laws. A kosher symbol on a package assures that these
standards have been met.
Does the rabbi have to supervise non-Jewish workers?
Post by cindys
Well, this was probably more than you wanted to know...but thank you for
your interest. On this group, the vast majority of the posters are
antisemites, so you are like a breath of fresh air.
I really liked El Al's strict security policy when I had to research for
my speech presentation about the airline safety. In case you visit
Japan, I have absolutely no idea where you can get kosher food, but tofu
is the safest food for the Jewish people. However, the passenger who
sat next to me said that tofu has to be supervised during its make.
They use the bitter (sodium from the ocean) for enzyme, not products
from animal.
cindys
2003-11-26 22:08:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cindy
<snip the interesting Jewish tradition>
Post by cindys
For the record, at no time does the rabbi "bless" any of the meat (or any
other food). This is a common misconception. The rabbi's role is strictly a
supervisory one and his sole function with respect to the kosher food
industry is to ensure that the food is in keeping with the standards of the
Jewish dietary laws. A kosher symbol on a package assures that these
standards have been met.
Does the rabbi have to supervise non-Jewish workers?
Yes. If he is going to certify a certain product as being kosher, he must
supervise the entire operation, Jewish and non-Jewish workers, ingredients,
processing, equipment, etc. If it is a factory (in contrast to a
slaughterhouse), the rabbi is not necessarily present all the time.
Typically, at the beginning of the process, the rabbi conducts a thorough
discussion, investigation, supervision etc with the manufacturers of the
product. (Clearly, this would happen only in a situation where a
manufacturer would like his product to be kosher certified and requests that
the rabbi visit the factory. Obviously, rabbis don't go around
investigating/supervising factories unless they've been invited/requested).
Once the rabbi feels satisfied that all ingredients are kosher and that the
processing does not involve kosher foods coming into contact with non-kosher
foods, etc. the food is certified kosher, and the manufacturer is allowed to
display a kosher symbol on the label. After that, the rabbi conducts
periodic inspections but is typically not present all the time. Usually, he
has a key to the factory so that he can make a surprise inspection if he so
chooses.
Post by Cindy
Post by cindys
Well, this was probably more than you wanted to know...but thank you for
your interest. On this group, the vast majority of the posters are
antisemites, so you are like a breath of fresh air.
I really liked El Al's strict security policy when I had to research for
my speech presentation about the airline safety. In case you visit
Japan, I have absolutely no idea where you can get kosher food, but tofu
is the safest food for the Jewish people. However, the passenger who
sat next to me said that tofu has to be supervised during its make.
Yes, it does have to be supervised, as I have described above.
Post by Cindy
They use the bitter (sodium from the ocean) for enzyme, not products
from animal.
While that may be true, other (non-kosher) products may be processed on the
same equipment at other times or maybe the bitter was stored in a container
that previously held dried shrimp (e.g.). Agar (seaweed) is often
non-kosher because it can contain parts from seahorses that get entangled in
it. Kosher involves the equipment, shipping, storage, and processing as well
as the ingredients. The rabbi checks into all of this before he can give his
certification to a product.

Again, thanks for asking. (BTW, I like your name!)
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Stuart Wilkes' mom
2003-11-26 22:44:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by cindys
Post by Cindy
<snip the interesting Jewish tradition>
Post by cindys
For the record, at no time does the rabbi "bless" any of the meat (or
any
Post by Cindy
Post by cindys
other food). This is a common misconception. The rabbi's role is
strictly a
Post by Cindy
Post by cindys
supervisory one and his sole function with respect to the kosher food
industry is to ensure that the food is in keeping with the standards
of
Post by cindys
the
Post by Cindy
Post by cindys
Jewish dietary laws. A kosher symbol on a package assures that these
standards have been met.
Does the rabbi have to supervise non-Jewish workers?
Yes. If he is going to certify a certain product as being kosher, he must
supervise the entire operation, Jewish and non-Jewish workers,
ingredients,
Post by cindys
processing, equipment, etc. If it is a factory (in contrast to a
slaughterhouse), the rabbi is not necessarily present all the time.
Typically, at the beginning of the process, the rabbi conducts a thorough
discussion, investigation, supervision etc with the manufacturers of the
product. (Clearly, this would happen only in a situation where a
manufacturer would like his product to be kosher certified and requests that
the rabbi visit the factory. Obviously, rabbis don't go around
investigating/supervising factories unless they've been
invited/requested).
Post by cindys
Once the rabbi feels satisfied that all ingredients are kosher and that the
processing does not involve kosher foods coming into contact with non-kosher
foods, etc. the food is certified kosher, and the manufacturer is allowed to
display a kosher symbol on the label. After that, the rabbi conducts
periodic inspections but is typically not present all the time. Usually, he
has a key to the factory so that he can make a surprise inspection if he so
chooses.
Post by Cindy
Post by cindys
Well, this was probably more than you wanted to know...but thank you for
your interest. On this group, the vast majority of the posters are
antisemites, so you are like a breath of fresh air.
I really liked El Al's strict security policy when I had to research for
my speech presentation about the airline safety. In case you visit
Japan, I have absolutely no idea where you can get kosher food, but tofu
is the safest food for the Jewish people. However, the passenger who
sat next to me said that tofu has to be supervised during its make.
Yes, it does have to be supervised, as I have described above.
Post by Cindy
They use the bitter (sodium from the ocean) for enzyme, not products
from animal.
While that may be true, other (non-kosher) products may be processed on the
same equipment at other times or maybe the bitter was stored in a container
that previously held dried shrimp (e.g.). Agar (seaweed) is often
non-kosher because it can contain parts from seahorses that get entangled in
it. Kosher involves the equipment, shipping, storage, and processing as well
as the ingredients. The rabbi checks into all of this before he can give his
certification to a product.
Again, thanks for asking. (BTW, I like your name!)
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
So basically what you're saying is anybody can label anything kosher and
there's nothing to stop them.
cindys
2003-11-27 00:50:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
So basically what you're saying is anybody can label anything kosher and
there's nothing to stop them.
-------------
Anyone can put a plain "K" on a package or write the word "kosher"
(including the manufacturer). Because a plain "K" is generic, there is
really no way to know if the item is kosher or not or if there is actually
any rabbinical supervision or not.

On the other hand, there are trademark kosher symbols such as the OU (U in a
circle), O-K (K in a circle), Star-K, Kof-K, and CRC (Chicago Rabbinical
Council), to name a few. These are trademark symbols and only the agencies
they represent can give permission for them to be displayed on the label of
a product. Anyone can telephone the certifying agency behind these trademark
symbols and ask about the standards of that particular agency. It is illegal
for a manufacturer to display a trademark symbol on one of his products
without the authorization of the certifying agency that particular symbol
represents.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Stuart Wilkes' mom
2003-11-27 11:23:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by cindys
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
So basically what you're saying is anybody can label anything kosher and
there's nothing to stop them.
-------------
Anyone can put a plain "K" on a package or write the word "kosher"
(including the manufacturer). Because a plain "K" is generic, there is
really no way to know if the item is kosher or not or if there is actually
any rabbinical supervision or not.
On the other hand, there are trademark kosher symbols such as the OU (U in a
circle), O-K (K in a circle), Star-K, Kof-K, and CRC (Chicago Rabbinical
Council), to name a few. These are trademark symbols and only the agencies
they represent can give permission for them to be displayed on the label of
a product. Anyone can telephone the certifying agency behind these trademark
symbols and ask about the standards of that particular agency. It is illegal
for a manufacturer to display a trademark symbol on one of his products
without the authorization of the certifying agency that particular symbol
represents.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
So? The word kosher is in the public domain. Anybody can put the word kosher
on a product and there's nothing that can be done legally to stop it.
The FDA does not recognize religious phoney-baloney (pun intended). So come
to SCR if you want real phoney baloney.
Linda Carmon
2003-11-27 17:07:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
So? The word kosher is in the public domain. Anybody can put the word kosher
on a product and there's nothing that can be done legally to stop it.
The FDA does not recognize religious phoney-baloney (pun intended). So come
to SCR if you want real phoney baloney.
You're correct, that "anybody can put the word kosher on a product and there's nothing that can be
done legally to stop it."

However, the word "kosher" on a product is not a sufficient guarantee that the food is actually
kosher. Anyone who follows the laws of Kashrut will only accept supervision from a known rabbinic
authority (such as O-U, which IS legally permitted to be used only when supervised by an a rabbi
authorized by that organization).

Linda
cindys
2003-11-27 22:50:18 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 11:23:14 GMT, "Stuart Wilkes' mom"
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
So? The word kosher is in the public domain. Anybody can put the word kosher
on a product and there's nothing that can be done legally to stop it.
The FDA does not recognize religious phoney-baloney (pun intended). So come
to SCR if you want real phoney baloney.
You're correct, that "anybody can put the word kosher on a product and
there's nothing that can be
done legally to stop it."
However, the word "kosher" on a product is not a sufficient guarantee that
the food is actually
kosher. Anyone who follows the laws of Kashrut will only accept
supervision from a known rabbinic
authority (such as O-U, which IS legally permitted to be used only when
supervised by an a rabbi
authorized by that organization).
Linda
-------------------
Which of course is what I have explained already and in great detail in the
previous post in this thread, but facts are a major inconvenience for those
who are in the business of spreading antisemitism.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Susan Cohen
2003-11-28 06:17:44 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 11:23:14 GMT, "Stuart Wilkes' mom"
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
So? The word kosher is in the public domain. Anybody can put the word kosher
on a product and there's nothing that can be done legally to stop it.
The FDA does not recognize religious phoney-baloney (pun intended). So come
to SCR if you want real phoney baloney.
You're correct, that "anybody can put the word kosher on a product and
there's nothing that can be
done legally to stop it."
But they can't use a specific kashrus mark that is the property of a
recongized group - such as the one you reference below.
However, the word "kosher" on a product is not a sufficient guarantee that
the food is actually
kosher. Anyone who follows the laws of Kashrut will only accept
supervision from a known rabbinic
authority (such as O-U, which IS legally permitted to be used only when
supervised by an a rabbi
authorized by that organization).
Usually, when a seller wants to intimate that his stuff is kosher, the
company will just put a "K" on it.

Susan
Linda
cindys
2003-11-27 22:49:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by cindys
Post by cindys
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
So basically what you're saying is anybody can label anything kosher and
there's nothing to stop them.
-------------
Anyone can put a plain "K" on a package or write the word "kosher"
(including the manufacturer). Because a plain "K" is generic, there is
really no way to know if the item is kosher or not or if there is actually
any rabbinical supervision or not.
On the other hand, there are trademark kosher symbols such as the OU (U
in
Post by cindys
a
Post by cindys
circle), O-K (K in a circle), Star-K, Kof-K, and CRC (Chicago Rabbinical
Council), to name a few. These are trademark symbols and only the
agencies
Post by cindys
they represent can give permission for them to be displayed on the label
of
Post by cindys
a product. Anyone can telephone the certifying agency behind these
trademark
Post by cindys
symbols and ask about the standards of that particular agency. It is
illegal
Post by cindys
for a manufacturer to display a trademark symbol on one of his products
without the authorization of the certifying agency that particular symbol
represents.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
So? The word kosher is in the public domain. Anybody can put the word kosher
on a product and there's nothing that can be done legally to stop it.
The FDA does not recognize religious phoney-baloney (pun intended). So come
to SCR if you want real phoney baloney.
------------
But as I explained above, the U.S. Court system certainly does recognize
copyright laws, which the O-U, O-K etc are. Anyone company which uses one of
these symbols without authorization could find itself being sued for a hell
of a lot of money. Anyway, unlike you, no intelligent person would believe a
product is kosher just because some idiot wrote the word "kosher" on the
passage.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Cindy
2003-11-26 23:32:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by cindys
Yes. If he is going to certify a certain product as being kosher, he must
supervise the entire operation, Jewish and non-Jewish workers, ingredients,
processing, equipment, etc. If it is a factory (in contrast to a
slaughterhouse), the rabbi is not necessarily present all the time.
Typically, at the beginning of the process, the rabbi conducts a thorough
discussion, investigation, supervision etc with the manufacturers of the
product. (Clearly, this would happen only in a situation where a
manufacturer would like his product to be kosher certified and requests that
the rabbi visit the factory. Obviously, rabbis don't go around
investigating/supervising factories unless they've been invited/requested).
Once the rabbi feels satisfied that all ingredients are kosher and that the
processing does not involve kosher foods coming into contact with non-kosher
foods, etc. the food is certified kosher, and the manufacturer is allowed to
display a kosher symbol on the label. After that, the rabbi conducts
periodic inspections but is typically not present all the time. Usually, he
has a key to the factory so that he can make a surprise inspection if he so
chooses.
So, non-Jewish workers are fully trained for the Jewish traditions? Are
there any disagreements between the Jewish workers and non-Jewish
workers? I guess no problem, right?
Post by cindys
While that may be true, other (non-kosher) products may be processed on the
same equipment at other times or maybe the bitter was stored in a container
that previously held dried shrimp (e.g.). Agar (seaweed) is often
non-kosher because it can contain parts from seahorses that get entangled in
it. Kosher involves the equipment, shipping, storage, and processing as well
as the ingredients. The rabbi checks into all of this before he can give his
certification to a product.
LOL! Can you find any more strict guidelines than this in the world? I
bet yours is the most strict! You should be proud of it.
Post by cindys
Again, thanks for asking. (BTW, I like your name!)
It is impossible for both of us to forget, isn't it?
cindys
2003-11-27 01:08:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cindy
Post by cindys
Yes. If he is going to certify a certain product as being kosher, he must
supervise the entire operation, Jewish and non-Jewish workers, ingredients,
processing, equipment, etc. If it is a factory (in contrast to a
slaughterhouse), the rabbi is not necessarily present all the time.
Typically, at the beginning of the process, the rabbi conducts a thorough
discussion, investigation, supervision etc with the manufacturers of the
product. (Clearly, this would happen only in a situation where a
manufacturer would like his product to be kosher certified and requests that
the rabbi visit the factory. Obviously, rabbis don't go around
investigating/supervising factories unless they've been
invited/requested).
Post by Cindy
Post by cindys
Once the rabbi feels satisfied that all ingredients are kosher and that the
processing does not involve kosher foods coming into contact with non-kosher
foods, etc. the food is certified kosher, and the manufacturer is allowed to
display a kosher symbol on the label. After that, the rabbi conducts
periodic inspections but is typically not present all the time. Usually, he
has a key to the factory so that he can make a surprise inspection if he so
chooses.
So, non-Jewish workers are fully trained for the Jewish traditions? Are
there any disagreements between the Jewish workers and non-Jewish
workers? I guess no problem, right?
They really don't need to be trained differently because the job that
they're doing does not require them to do anything differently. For example:
Let's suppose the XYZ Company wants to have their line of cookies and
crackers kosher certified. They would call a kosher certifying agency. A
rabbi from the kosher agency would arrive for a meeting with the
manufacturer. He would ask the manufacturer for a list of every single
ingredient that is being used in the cookies and crackers. Then, the rabbi
would ensure that all of the ingredients were kosher certified. If some of
the items on the list were not kosher or not kosher certified, the rabbi
would tell the manufacturer that he needed to switch ingredient A or
ingredient B to a kosher brand. The rabbi would ensure that any equipment
that had previously been used was steam cleaned by people who are trained to
do that (this would be done under the rabbi's supervision, or often, the
rabbi may very well clean the equipment himself). The rabbi would also
ensure that the equipment being used was not also being used to process or
store other items not under rabbinical supervision. But all of this activity
is taking place at the level of the management. From the perspective of the
workers (be they Jewish or not Jewish), they are continuing to perform their
jobs in the same way as they always have, baking the cookies or putting them
in the boxes, or whatever. The only difference they may notice is that the
shortening for the cookies is now Brand X instead of Brand Y. Or they may
need to learn new methods for cleaning the equipment. Or perhaps in a
canning factory, the manufacturer may announce that the clam juice will no
longer be bottled on the same equipment as the tomato juice. The only
potential problem that I can see is that the employees (Jewish or not
Jewish) will not be allowed to have any personal food items around the
processing equipment (assuming that was previously permitted). This is to
ensure that the kosher food does not come into contact with the nonkosher
food. The rabbi (with the cooperation of the manufacturer) is the one who
is exclusively responsible for keeping the factory kosher. The employees
(Jewish or non-Jewish) really don't need to know any Jewish traditions
(assuming they follow whatever instructions they are given).
Post by Cindy
Post by cindys
While that may be true, other (non-kosher) products may be processed on the
same equipment at other times or maybe the bitter was stored in a container
that previously held dried shrimp (e.g.). Agar (seaweed) is often
non-kosher because it can contain parts from seahorses that get entangled in
it. Kosher involves the equipment, shipping, storage, and processing as well
as the ingredients. The rabbi checks into all of this before he can give his
certification to a product.
LOL! Can you find any more strict guidelines than this in the world? I
bet yours is the most strict! You should be proud of it.
Thank you for saying that.
Post by Cindy
Post by cindys
Again, thanks for asking. (BTW, I like your name!)
It is impossible for both of us to forget, isn't it?
I doubt it very much. You say you are Japanese and live in Japan? Isn't
Cindy an unusual name in Japan?
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Richard Schultz
2003-11-27 05:17:36 UTC
Permalink
In rec.arts.movies.past-films cindys <***@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
: "Cindy" <***@attb.com> wrote in message
: news:GKaxb.315909$***@attbi_s03...

:> So, non-Jewish workers are fully trained for the Jewish traditions?

: They really don't need to be trained differently because the job that
: they're doing does not require them to do anything differently.

I once accompanied a rabbi who did supervision for the OU on an inspection
trip for a commercial bakery. He told me that he would ask random
(non-Jewish -- this was, after all, Utah) workers what exactly they were
doing precisely because they did *not* know the "right answers," unlike
the managers who might have an incentive to lie if they were using a
non-approved ingredient or process.

-----
Richard Schultz ***@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You go on playing Bach your way, and I'll go on playing him *his* way."
-- Wanda Landowska
cindys
2003-11-27 15:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Schultz
:> So, non-Jewish workers are fully trained for the Jewish traditions?
: They really don't need to be trained differently because the job that
: they're doing does not require them to do anything differently.
I once accompanied a rabbi who did supervision for the OU on an inspection
trip for a commercial bakery. He told me that he would ask random
(non-Jewish -- this was, after all, Utah) workers what exactly they were
doing precisely because they did *not* know the "right answers," unlike
the managers who might have an incentive to lie if they were using a
non-approved ingredient or process.
--------------------
Very interesting, and it makes a lot of sense. And this brings to mind
another point. Antisemites (especially on this newsgroup) like to claim that
Jews will never accept the testimony of non-Jews. This is not true. In fact,
there are situations where non-Jewish testimony would be accepted
specifically because the non-Jew would not be familiar with *the right
answer* and therefore would not have any incentive to lie or to give the
response he thinks the judge wants to hear.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Cindy
2003-11-27 15:04:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by cindys
They really don't need to be trained differently because the job that
Let's suppose the XYZ Company wants to have their line of cookies and
crackers kosher certified. They would call a kosher certifying agency.A
rabbi from the kosher agency would arrive for a meeting with the
manufacturer. He would ask the manufacturer for a list of every single
ingredient that is being used in the cookies and crackers.
So that the manufacturer can not mix any obscure things in the products.
Such as preservatives besides nonkosher items?
Post by cindys
Then, the rabbi
would ensure that all of the ingredients were kosher certified. If some of
the items on the list were not kosher or not kosher certified, the rabbi
would tell the manufacturer that he needed to switch ingredient A or
ingredient B to a kosher brand. The rabbi would ensure that any equipment
that had previously been used was steam cleaned by people who are trained to
do that (this would be done under the rabbi's supervision, or often, the
rabbi may very well clean the equipment himself). The rabbi would also
ensure that the equipment being used was not also being used to process or
store other items not under rabbinical supervision. But all of this activity
is taking place at the level of the management. From the perspective of the
workers (be they Jewish or not Jewish), they are continuing to perform their
jobs in the same way as they always have, baking the cookies or putting them
in the boxes, or whatever. The only difference they may notice is that the
shortening for the cookies is now Brand X instead of Brand Y. Or they may
need to learn new methods for cleaning the equipment.
It's fascinating! It must be thorough and completely sanitized.
Post by cindys
Or perhaps in a
canning factory, the manufacturer may announce that the clam juice will no
longer be bottled on the same equipment as the tomato juice. The only
potential problem that I can see is that the employees (Jewish or not
Jewish) will not be allowed to have any personal food items around the
processing equipment (assuming that was previously permitted). This is to
ensure that the kosher food does not come into contact with the nonkosher
food. The rabbi (with the cooperation of the manufacturer) is the one who
is exclusively responsible for keeping the factory kosher. The employees
(Jewish or non-Jewish) really don't need to know any Jewish traditions
(assuming they follow whatever instructions they are given).
It has been very interesting. Excuse my repetition of the word, but the
work ethics is so very interesting! Of course, producing "kosher" food
is very important so that the customers will be satisfied. You can say
that it is customer oriented, but it is actually rabbi-oriented, which
is actually tolar-oriented. In any other cultures, it is generally
customer-oriented. In Japan, there is a concept that "customers are
gods". I understand the meanings and values of them, but I don't really
think it's right.

If I have to go to some unfamiliar places and have no confidence in
selecting my food, I will try find kosher meal! Good idea?
Post by cindys
Post by Cindy
LOL! Can you find any more strict guidelines than this in the world? I
bet yours is the most strict! You should be proud of it.
Thank you for saying that.
Don't mention it. It's good to follow God's law, right?
Post by cindys
Post by Cindy
Post by cindys
Again, thanks for asking. (BTW, I like your name!)
It is impossible for both of us to forget, isn't it?
I doubt it very much. You say you are Japanese and live in Japan? Isn't
Cindy an unusual name in Japan?
I am Japanese and married to an American man. We have lived in Texas
for 13 years. I have a Japanese name, but local people have trouble
remembering it. So, I call myself Cindy, and nobody has problem. Do you
live in the U.S.A. too?
Susan Cohen
2003-11-27 04:31:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cindy
So, non-Jewish workers are fully trained for the Jewish traditions?
I think that they are most likely trained to "do x, & x alone, don't add
anything to it" sort of thing.

Susan
Cindy
2003-11-27 15:12:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Susan Cohen
Post by Cindy
So, non-Jewish workers are fully trained for the Jewish traditions?
I think that they are most likely trained to "do x, & x alone, don't add
anything to it" sort of thing.
I see.
Susan Cohen
2003-11-27 04:33:07 UTC
Permalink
"Cindy" <***@attb.com> wrote in message news:GKaxb.315909$***@attbi_s03...

I just wanted you to know what a joy it is to have someone ask questions
*obviously* just for the sake of knowledge, and not because s/he is trying
to "trip us up" & discover some "sinister plot to take over the world thru
kosher certification....."

Happy Thanksgiving!

Susan
Stuart Wilkes' mom
2003-11-27 11:23:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Susan Cohen
I just wanted you to know what a joy it is to have someone ask questions
*obviously* just for the sake of knowledge, and not because s/he is trying
to "trip us up" & discover some "sinister plot to take over the world thru
kosher certification....."
Happy Thanksgiving!
Susan
Maybe you have inadvertantly tipped us onto another one of your
conspiracies? World domination via matzah!!!! Hide your children!

You are probably behind water fluoridation too!

At least we are now getting a breather cuz you're busy corraling the
Palestinians into your "Warsaw ghetto" on the west bank.
Cindy
2003-11-27 15:38:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Maybe you have inadvertantly tipped us onto another one of your
conspiracies? World domination via matzah!!!! Hide your children!
You are probably behind water fluoridation too!
At least we are now getting a breather cuz you're busy corraling the
Palestinians into your "Warsaw ghetto" on the west bank.
You look completely an idiot.
Stuart Wilkes' mom
2003-11-27 19:31:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cindy
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Maybe you have inadvertantly tipped us onto another one of your
conspiracies? World domination via matzah!!!! Hide your children!
You are probably behind water fluoridation too!
At least we are now getting a breather cuz you're busy corraling the
Palestinians into your "Warsaw ghetto" on the west bank.
You look completely an idiot.
How so? Do you not like the fact that Israelis have become Nazis? Just as
the Germans took Poland and Czaechoslovakia for their lebensraum, so too the
Iraelis take the west bank. Just as the Nazis herded the Jews into the
Warsaw and Lodz ghettos, so too the Israelis herd the Palestinians into the
ever smaller west bank enclaves and the Gaza.

Maybe it was not too much fun for the Jews to be the opressed but they sure
do enjoy being the opressors. Let's not forget that most of current Israeli
territory was stolen by the Israelis. The original Israel did not encompass
much of the current Israel. Israel stole everything by running the
Palestinians out.

The state of Israel was founded on the notion that because Israelis needed a
home, somebody else was required (involuntarily) to give it to them.

Face it. The only thing that's different is the swastika has been replaced
by the star of David.
Richard Schultz
2003-11-27 20:00:04 UTC
Permalink
In rec.arts.movies.past-films Stuart Wilkes' mom <***@jhgjhgjhg.com> wrote:

: How so? Do you not like the fact that Israelis have become Nazis? Just as
: the Germans took Poland and Czaechoslovakia for their lebensraum, so too the
: Iraelis take the west bank. Just as the Nazis herded the Jews into the
: Warsaw and Lodz ghettos, so too the Israelis herd the Palestinians into the
: ever smaller west bank enclaves and the Gaza.

: Maybe it was not too much fun for the Jews to be the opressed but they sure
: do enjoy being the opressors. Let's not forget that most of current Israeli
: territory was stolen by the Israelis. The original Israel did not encompass
: much of the current Israel. Israel stole everything by running the
: Palestinians out.

Do you enjoy telling lies, or do you really believe the above?

: The state of Israel was founded on the notion that because Israelis needed a
: home, somebody else was required (involuntarily) to give it to them.

No, the state of Israel was founded on the notion that since the Jews
were the last people to have an independent state there (not including
the Crusaders, who weren't there for very long or inhabited very much
of it), and that since they never gave up their claim to the land, they
had a historical and moral right to it. In fact, the people who
controlled the land at the time (the British after defeating the Ottoman
Empire in World War I) offered it, although during the Mandate period
were fairly reluctant about it.

: Face it. The only thing that's different is the swastika has been replaced
: by the star of David.

Face it -- you haven't a clue about what you are talking about.

-----
Richard Schultz ***@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"It is terrible to die of thirst in the ocean. Do you have to salt your
truth so heavily that it does not even quench thirst any more?"
cindys
2003-11-27 22:53:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by Cindy
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Maybe you have inadvertantly tipped us onto another one of your
conspiracies? World domination via matzah!!!! Hide your children!
You are probably behind water fluoridation too!
At least we are now getting a breather cuz you're busy corraling the
Palestinians into your "Warsaw ghetto" on the west bank.
You look completely an idiot.
How so? Do you not like the fact that Israelis have become Nazis?
[snip crap]

-------------
This is a classic example of "Godwin's law," i.e. if you are losing the
argument or haven't anything intelligent to say, call your opponent an
"Nazi." The first one to resort to "Godwin's law" automatically loses the
argument.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
2003-11-28 06:40:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by cindys
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by Cindy
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Maybe you have inadvertantly tipped us onto another one of your
conspiracies? World domination via matzah!!!! Hide your children!
You are probably behind water fluoridation too!
At least we are now getting a breather cuz you're busy corraling the
Palestinians into your "Warsaw ghetto" on the west bank.
You look completely an idiot.
How so? Do you not like the fact that Israelis have become Nazis?
[snip crap]
-------------
This is a classic example of "Godwin's law," i.e. if you are losing the
argument or haven't anything intelligent to say, call your opponent an
"Nazi." The first one to resort to "Godwin's law" automatically loses the
argument.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Wow! wondefull! I like that.
And why do I like it?
Because almost whenever I write something even slightly critical
of Zionist behaviour, I invariably get called an anti semitic Nazi
by several people here.
Stuart Wilkes' mom
2003-11-28 12:38:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by cindys
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by Cindy
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Maybe you have inadvertantly tipped us onto another one of your
conspiracies? World domination via matzah!!!! Hide your children!
You are probably behind water fluoridation too!
At least we are now getting a breather cuz you're busy corraling the
Palestinians into your "Warsaw ghetto" on the west bank.
You look completely an idiot.
How so? Do you not like the fact that Israelis have become Nazis?
[snip crap]
-------------
This is a classic example of "Godwin's law," i.e. if you are losing the
argument or haven't anything intelligent to say, call your opponent an
"Nazi." The first one to resort to "Godwin's law" automatically loses the
argument.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Right! By bringing up Godwin's law you are in fact avoiding Israel's sordid
past. You bring up Godwin's law and at the same use it to escape. Could it
be you have nothing intelligent to say?

Or maybe you want to talk about Israel's Berlin wall, a testament to
Israel's continuing efforts to get along with its neighbors?

Cindy
2003-11-28 03:35:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Post by Cindy
Post by Stuart Wilkes' mom
Maybe you have inadvertantly tipped us onto another one of your
conspiracies? World domination via matzah!!!! Hide your children!
You are probably behind water fluoridation too!
At least we are now getting a breather cuz you're busy corraling the
Palestinians into your "Warsaw ghetto" on the west bank.
You look completely an idiot.
How so? Do you not like the fact that Israelis have become Nazis? Just as
the Germans took Poland and Czaechoslovakia for their lebensraum, so too the
Iraelis take the west bank. Just as the Nazis herded the Jews into the
Warsaw and Lodz ghettos, so too the Israelis herd the Palestinians into the
ever smaller west bank enclaves and the Gaza.
Maybe it was not too much fun for the Jews to be the opressed but they sure
do enjoy being the opressors. Let's not forget that most of current Israeli
territory was stolen by the Israelis. The original Israel did not encompass
much of the current Israel. Israel stole everything by running the
Palestinians out.
The state of Israel was founded on the notion that because Israelis needed a
home, somebody else was required (involuntarily) to give it to them.
Face it. The only thing that's different is the swastika has been replaced
by the star of David.
In this thread, we were talking about kosher meal and the Jewish
traditions. You are way off-topic.
Cadet Grey
2003-11-28 04:52:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cindy
In this thread, we were talking about kosher meal and the Jewish
traditions. You are way off-topic.
Speaking of Off-Topic, why is this thread still being cross-posted to
rec.arts.movies.past-films?

- Grey
Cindy
2003-11-27 15:35:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Susan Cohen
I just wanted you to know what a joy it is to have someone ask questions
*obviously* just for the sake of knowledge, and not because s/he is trying
to "trip us up" & discover some "sinister plot to take over the world thru
kosher certification....."
Some (ignorant) people try to separate you from your laws and traditions
because they don't seem very practical to those people. Since they have
a narrow frame of reference, they think they are the best or something.
I think the Jewish people are very fine to me. They have survived
through a lot of hard times in the history too.
Post by Susan Cohen
Happy Thanksgiving!
Happy Thanksgiving to you!
Susan Cohen
2003-11-27 04:29:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cindy
Does the rabbi have to supervise non-Jewish workers?
Oh yes.
I once read a story - funny in retrospect - how a rabbi who worked in China
stupefied the workers in a tuna packing company. They couldn't understand
why they weren't allowed to improve the flavor & appearance of the tuna by
an application of shiny paste on the top of the tuna when it was put into
the cans. The paste was made of SHRIMP!!! The somewhat sad part was that
they got their feelings hurt because the rabbi couldn't eat with them: they
insisted on trying to give him choice delicacies - and, naturally, they were
mostly exotic shellfish....

Susan
Stuart Wilkes' mom
2003-11-27 11:31:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Susan Cohen
Post by Cindy
Does the rabbi have to supervise non-Jewish workers?
Oh yes.
I once read a story - funny in retrospect - how a rabbi who worked in China
stupefied the workers in a tuna packing company. They couldn't understand
why they weren't allowed to improve the flavor & appearance of the tuna by
an application of shiny paste on the top of the tuna when it was put into
the cans. The paste was made of SHRIMP!!! The somewhat sad part was that
they got their feelings hurt because the rabbi couldn't eat with them: they
insisted on trying to give him choice delicacies - and, naturally, they were
mostly exotic shellfish....
Susan
He probably was successful in seeding hatred of Jews in China though. Bull
in a China shop (pun intended).

When I go to China, I always say "hey buddy, pass me sumor of that
deelicious shrimp! That way you are already full when they pass around the
kosher chicken feet.
Cindy
2003-11-27 15:11:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Susan Cohen
Post by Cindy
Does the rabbi have to supervise non-Jewish workers?
Oh yes.
I once read a story - funny in retrospect - how a rabbi who worked in China
stupefied the workers in a tuna packing company. They couldn't understand
why they weren't allowed to improve the flavor & appearance of the tuna by
an application of shiny paste on the top of the tuna when it was put into
the cans. The paste was made of SHRIMP!!! The somewhat sad part was that
they got their feelings hurt because the rabbi couldn't eat with them: they
insisted on trying to give him choice delicacies - and, naturally, they were
mostly exotic shellfish....
I see. I can imagine that! If you don't know the Jewish culture, your
favor might seem turned down. But the Jewish people are just obeying
the law, so you don't have to take it too personally.

I think culture education is very very necessary in school.
d***@aol.com
2003-11-27 00:08:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@aol.com
Cindy, 75% of the 5.7 billion worth of KOSHER foods sold each year in
the US, is purchased by Gentiles!! Jews (wealthiest ethnic group in
the US) comprise a measly 2% of the American population. Of that tiny
number, the overwhelming majority of Jews are secular. Where does this
zany notion come from that all Jews are required to practice KOSHER!?
Unless one chooses to adhere to a strict KOSHER diet, or one is born
into a religious sect of Judaism (most influential religion in the
world), there is no set law that says one has to do so.
Regardless, KOSHER (cool, clean, fit) is so popular in America,
"Ball Park" (non-Kosher meat manufacturer) now has their own line of
KOSHER franks. I have yet to hear of one knowing individual who hasn't
fallen in love with KOSHER deli!? Not one who hasn't tasted HEBREW
NATIONAL cold cuts!? KOSHER is free of contaminants, impurities &
animal cruelty. It's still the healthiest food on the planet! Do you
think it's just a coincidence that almost every case of foodborne
illness continues to occur in non-KOSHER meats!?
Sorry, but unless one is living out in the Appalachians, KOSHER
cuisine is stinkin' delish!ehehe From BLINTZES to BAGELS, from KNISHES
to KUGEL, from HOT PASTRAMI ON RYE to COW'S TONGUE, from LATKES to
LOX, from MATZOH BALL SOUP that melts in your mouth to GEFILTE FISH
(most types of fish are acceptable by KOSHER law) that puts hair on
your chest, from STUFFED DERMA (KISHKA) to a BIG KOSHER DILL PICKLE,
there's absolutely nothing restrictive about the taste of KOSHER
foods!
In NYC (greatest Jewish city in the world - hub of culture, finance,
fashion, retail, trade, cuisine, music, theatre, media &
communications), we have KOSHER Chinese restaurants! I kid you not!ehe
In the end, moderation is ultimately the key! Pork tastes good, but
it's still one the worst foods that your body can consume!! -D, NYC "I
believe that eating pork makes people stupid!" eh - DAVID STEINBERG
(sweet Jew, comedian/actor/filmmaker)>
MMMmmmmmm. You are making me hungry.> It really isn't tough eating Kosher, but is much easier is Israel or the US> where it is easier to get than here.>
Tilly
Tilly, why not SHLEP on down to the greatest (Jewish) city in the
world!?ehe Your first stop should be "2nd Avenue Deli," rated #1 by
Zagat's!! It simply doesn't get any better!eh -D, NYC "Jewish
education has, over the years, brought to New York State the fruits of
a proud heritage of learning, a history of scholarly achievement and a
tradition of progressive educational involvement." - NELSON
ROCKEFELLER (former US V.P., NY Governor - 1959-73)
Patricia Heil
2003-11-20 21:25:25 UTC
Permalink
First, you should read the article in the current Scientific
American about race.

Second this subject has been dealth with before on this newsgroup.
A really intelligent person would check that out and only post
anything new they have. You are simply rehashing things refuted
against trolls before now.

So if you don't want to be identified with trolls, stop posting
such garbage.
Post by Elena Nakashima
Are Jews good or bad? The fairest answer would be neither; they are
like anyone else, there are good ones and bad ones.
I agree that this is true.
Elena Nakashima
2003-11-21 04:29:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patricia Heil
First, you should read the article in the current Scientific
American about race.
Yes, they want to tell us that Nigerians and Vietnamese are exactly
the same and that differences among races are negligible.

Yeah, how suspenseful to have Mike Tyson fight some 5 ft 3 in guy
named Nguyen.

Political correct science.
Patricia Heil
2003-11-21 13:10:16 UTC
Permalink
Proof you haven't read the article. Go to ebay and buy a brain.
Post by Elena Nakashima
Post by Patricia Heil
First, you should read the article in the current Scientific
American about race.
Yes, they want to tell us that Nigerians and Vietnamese are exactly
the same and that differences among races are negligible.
Yeah, how suspenseful to have Mike Tyson fight some 5 ft 3 in guy
named Nguyen.
Political correct science.
Richard
2003-11-21 04:57:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patricia Heil
First, you should read the article in the current Scientific
American about race.
Why? Current archeology and anthropology circles are populated with
cowardly, politically-correct hacks who only publish things if they conform
to the "correct" view.
-Rich
madkevin
2003-11-21 17:54:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard
Post by Patricia Heil
First, you should read the article in the current Scientific
American about race.
Why? Current archeology and anthropology circles are populated with
cowardly, politically-correct hacks who only publish things if they conform
to the "correct" view.
-Rich
Or, as it's commonly-spelled, "factual".

Kevin "It Pays To Enrich Your Word Power!" Cogliano
Richard
2003-11-23 00:51:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by madkevin
Post by Richard
Post by Patricia Heil
First, you should read the article in the current Scientific
American about race.
Why? Current archeology and anthropology circles are populated with
cowardly, politically-correct hacks who only publish things if they conform
to the "correct" view.
-Rich
Or, as it's commonly-spelled, "factual".
Kevin "It Pays To Enrich Your Word Power!" Cogliano
You wouldn't say that if you knew anything about the subject.
Or maybe you would, since you are one of the "correct" types
yourself.
-Rich
madkevin
2003-11-23 14:23:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard
Post by madkevin
Or, as it's commonly-spelled, "factual".
Kevin "It Pays To Enrich Your Word Power!" Cogliano
You wouldn't say that if you knew anything about the subject.
Or maybe you would, since you are one of the "correct" types
yourself.
-Rich
Or, as it's commonly-spelled, "intelligent".

Kevin "Put That In Your Funk & Wagnall's" Cogliano
Cadet Grey
2003-11-26 19:31:45 UTC
Permalink
So bringing this discussion back OT for the rec.arts.movies.past-films
group, what films have had significant scenes set in a Jewish deli?

- Grey
Stephen Cooke
2003-11-26 20:23:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cadet Grey
So bringing this discussion back OT for the rec.arts.movies.past-films
group, what films have had significant scenes set in a Jewish deli?
Well, there's Delicatessen...

One of my favourite Montreal haunts, Ben's Delicatessen is a classic deli
that hasn't changed its decor in over 60 years. Because of that it gets
used as a movie location fairly often, in the window there's a photo of
Gerard Depardieu and Catherine Deneuve that was taken there during the
filming of some Quebec/France cross-Atlantic co-production.

As to the film's name, I have no idea.

swac
Richard Schultz
2003-11-27 05:18:36 UTC
Permalink
In rec.arts.movies.past-films Cadet Grey <***@swbell.net> wrote:
: So bringing this discussion back OT for the rec.arts.movies.past-films
: group, what films have had significant scenes set in a Jewish deli?

"Annie Hall" and "Broadway Danny Rose" come to mind almost immediately.

-----
Richard Schultz ***@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"A condemned man does not request egg salad for his last meal. He also
doesn't order Alka-Seltzer."
Kehlog Ahlbran, _The Profit_
v***@oyama.ca
2003-11-27 22:48:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cadet Grey
So bringing this discussion back OT for the rec.arts.movies.past-films
group, what films have had significant scenes set in a Jewish deli?
Since it's also posted on soc.culture.japan, we must include all groups.
How about the 1970's SNL skit called "Samurai Delicatessen", starring
John Belushi.

Verno
Cindy
2003-11-20 21:36:34 UTC
Permalink
Elena Nakashima wrote:
<snip>
Post by Elena Nakashima
Anyway, I think all such fears are nonsensical and let's all just get
along together and not nitpick about our differences and focus instead
on our common humanity. God Bless.
Have you ever read the Bible? Do you understand what God means to them?
Do you understand what traditions they keep? Do you know what Moses,
Abraham, King David, and other Prophets meant to them?
Joseph Hertzlinger
2003-11-21 05:00:20 UTC
Permalink
Would the Jewish question only be answered by a question?
--
http://hertzlinger.blogspot.com
captain!
2003-11-21 08:59:30 UTC
Permalink
well, i would say that a lot of you have a fear of being "controled" by
jews. to me this gives the impression that you suffer from an inferiority
complex. confident people do not fear being controlled by anyone. if , in
fact, they are in positions of "control" in our societies, then they must
indeed be very intelligent people. are you afraid of them?
Post by Elena Nakashima
Are Jews good or bad? The fairest answer would be neither; they are
like anyone else, there are good ones and bad ones.
I agree that this is true.
However, ethnic and racial groups seem to possess certain
characteristics, advantages and disadvantages, and other qualities in
quantities uniquely different than among other groups.
For example, the Germanic and Japanese character seems to be driven
toward order and efficiency, cleanliness and precision. This can be
good when they are behaving and dangerous when organized for
aggression.
After all, how dangerous were a bunch of disorganized Italians when
compared to Germans?
It appears the general Jewish trait is cosmopolitanism, and to a
lesser degree, radicalism. Granted, there has been powerful
conservative Jewish impulses but these were confined among Jews and
Jewish issues. In other words, Orthodox Jews stick to their own kind,
their issues are their issues, and they neither care to nor want
interference or influence from or on the world outside.
...and the article goes on and on.....
Xiao Li
2003-11-22 02:21:07 UTC
Permalink
Judging by her name, I would say this is a Jap.

And seeing how Japs are the most racist people on the planet (rivaled
perhaps by fellow Gooks and chinks) her words really shouldn't be much
of a surprise to anyone.

Perhaps this Jap is trying to revive the old Nazi-Jap alliance through
bashing the Chosen People.
Post by Elena Nakashima
Are Jews good or bad? The fairest answer would be neither; they are
like anyone else, there are good ones and bad ones.
I agree that this is true.
However, ethnic and racial groups seem to possess certain
characteristics, advantages and disadvantages, and other qualities in
quantities uniquely different than among other groups.
For example, the Germanic and Japanese character seems to be driven
toward order and efficiency, cleanliness and precision. This can be
good when they are behaving and dangerous when organized for
aggression.
After all, how dangerous were a bunch of disorganized Italians when
compared to Germans?
It appears the general Jewish trait is cosmopolitanism, and to a
lesser degree, radicalism. Granted, there has been powerful
conservative Jewish impulses but these were confined among Jews and
Jewish issues. In other words, Orthodox Jews stick to their own kind,
their issues are their issues, and they neither care to nor want
interference or influence from or on the world outside.
So, the Jewish elements that do affect gentiles is Jewish
cosmopolitanism and radicalism. An orthodox Jew doesn't try to spread
Orthodox Judaism to other peoples but a radical Jews have tried to
spread communism. Orthodox Jews have little impact on the culture of
goyim but secularized Jews in the arts, media, and politics have left
an indelible mark of their vision and character. Another aspect of
Jewishness is their greater intellectual prowess that leads to rapid
achievements in such fields as academia, business, arts, and politics.
This influence has been both liberating and progressive as well as
destabilizing and alienating, especially for people who who came to
resent the newly arrived mass of immigrants'(say from Russia to
Germany or France)sudden and drastic impact on what the natives
consider their culture and destiny.
Of course this has been complicated by the fact that some Jews were
assimilationists and others became diehard radicals, some became
pro-government while others anti-government, and some became
capitalist tycoons while others became communist revolutionaries.
But, in the significant cases of Jewish capitalism and communism what
one senses is a loyalty that goes beyond national boundaries, with a
little or half-hearted respect for the traditions of the native
gentile populations. As many traditional values are stupid and
oppressive this Jewish influence can be welcomed as modern and
enlightening. But, can people live by ideology alone, whether it be
rooted in money or sense of justice?
I think we associate certain European countries with anti-semitism but
I think every nation and people have a potential for such prejudices,
especially if the nation happens to be homogenouos with a clear sense
of togetherness or a volkish sensibilty. America is ideal for Jews
because while many ethnic groups might distrust or even hate Jews, the
diverse gentile populations don't trust eachother enough to join
forces against the powerful Jewish elite. While the goyim might resent
and envy Jewish achievements and power in United States, it's highly
unlikely that Southern Baptists, Italian American Catholics, Blacks,
Hispanics, and Asians are likely to join forces in a united front
against the Jew. And, why should they if they believe in the American
ideal of meritocracy? If Jews have achieved riches and powers way
beyond their numbers thru hard work and superior intellect, isn't this
the American way. Of course, some don't agree and we have affirmative
action programs which limit, say, NY Jews from entering Ivy League
schools in greater numbers in favor of less intelligent gentiles from
Midwest smalltowns. Of course, some gentiles fear that because Jews
are more intelligent, Jews feel as though they have the right to
sneer, poke fun, trash, and desecrate the cultures of others. The Marx
Brothers movie Duck Soup is a perfect example of this unease gentiles
might feel, that Jews are nihilists who are above conventional
morality, just as Einstein's theory of relativitiy went beyond
conventional Newtonian understanding of the universe. When it's
simply a matter of scientific theory it doesn't matter much but things
of social impact are important in the minds of people. Some would
argue that Jews make fun of themselves as much as any other, and that
other peoples also have a long tradition of comedy and satire; after
all Jonathan Swift wasn't Jewish. But, Jewish humor seems wilder and
more aggressive because it's seen as criticism from an outsider.
Anyway, while I don't think Jews aren't any better or worse than
others, I think their impact on cultures the world over is
significantly DIFFERENT in quality and nuance than the influences of
other cultures. Also, because of the high caliber of Jewish
intellectuality, I think their influences, good and bad, become far
more consequential than that of others. For example, consider the
influence of former Stalinist historian Eric Hobsbawm. If he was just
another lame gentile historian he would have been shuffled aside as
academic hack. But, because of his brilliance, his pro-communist evil
has infiltrated into the unsuspecting minds of many.
I think one of the reasons why there was some clash between Japanese
and Jews in the early 90s was due to their different cultural
approaches and set of values. Japanese by and large are
traditionalist, volkish, and hierarchical whereas Jewish influence and
power in the world are cosmopolitan, supra-national,
anti-traditionalist, and liberal(except in the case of Israel which
can't afford tolerance in the present state of being surrounded by
Arab aggressors). Of course, one can argue that Japan is reasonably a
liberal and modern nation, and that its economy is world-based.
However, if we go beyond business(which in Japan is clannishly
organized and mercantilist anyway) and political expediency(Japanese
dependence on America, for example), Japanese still retain much of
their cultural impulses of the past. Western observers say that
Japanese still have a village mentality, dwell on their uniqueness,
their sense of honor, and define themselves in contrast to other
peoples. They are like Orthodox Jews but then again, Orthodox Jews are
not what defines Jewish power and influence in the world.
In contrast to the Japanese, secular Jews represent transcending
national boundaries, dismantling traditional modes of behavior and
allegiances. To the Japanese, Jews represent a very small percentage
of Americans with undue influence on American politics, culture, and
business. To even conceive of letting themselves be at the mercy of a
minority group upsets, even disgusts, the Japanese. Japanese think of
America as the great Yankee power, the empire of Douglas MacArthur and
John Wayne, now brought low by a cabal of disloyal internationalist
Jews who manipulate the American system for their narrow interests;
they see a once mighty gentile Christian nation led around on a leash
by its clever Jewish master who uses its power to open its national
borders and promote miscegenation to wipe out the racial identity and
pride that once distinguished the nation of Commodore Perry and
Charles Lindbergh. At its height, Japanese even wrote idiotic
best-sellers like IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE JEWS YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORLD,
which was so paranoid and looney that it even claimed Roosevelt was
Jewish. But it was a best-seller and was advertised in Japan's most
respected newspapers, and academics who knew better didn't protest
such slanderous spread of lies.
But, Jews have also seen Japan as a threat in the 80s. They saw the
rise of a homogenous, traditionalist, and fiercely nationalistic
society growing into a major power and what Japan represented was the
power of racial and national unity, of the volkish values, of
discipline and hierarchy, of conservative values; in other words, what
a nation can achieve by sticking together and controlling their own
destiny. Jews fear the Japanese as a bunch of feudalistic and
clannish tribe of modern day samurai who smile at and shakes hands
with the world but have no real value other than group loyality. They
see Japan as a male-dominated society where the population is kept
docile as children thru strick social ordering and thru mindless
soma-like influence of manga, videogames, and pachinko parlors which
keep the minds of people off important issues; in other words, stupid
child-like Japanese women would rather play pachinko all day or dye
their hair pink than march in the streets and demand real justice and
equality. Was Japanbashing in the media merely the manifestation of
American gentile prejudice or was there a Jewish element in the sheer
virulence it reached at its height in late 80s and early 90s?
Anyway, I think all such fears are nonsensical and let's all just get
along together and not nitpick about our differences and focus instead
on our common humanity. God Bless.
Aol
2003-11-22 03:30:17 UTC
Permalink
Judging from your name I'd say you're a chink.
And no, Japs aren't the most racist people on earth because
unlike some people they haven't institutionalized their racism into laws.
Perhaps you should go back to sucking on your steamed cat and
be quiet.
Post by Xiao Li
Judging by her name, I would say this is a Jap.
And seeing how Japs are the most racist people on the planet (rivaled
perhaps by fellow Gooks and chinks) her words really shouldn't be much
of a surprise to anyone.
Perhaps this Jap is trying to revive the old Nazi-Jap alliance through
bashing the Chosen People.
Post by Elena Nakashima
Are Jews good or bad? The fairest answer would be neither; they are
like anyone else, there are good ones and bad ones.
I agree that this is true.
However, ethnic and racial groups seem to possess certain
characteristics, advantages and disadvantages, and other qualities in
quantities uniquely different than among other groups.
For example, the Germanic and Japanese character seems to be driven
toward order and efficiency, cleanliness and precision. This can be
good when they are behaving and dangerous when organized for
aggression.
After all, how dangerous were a bunch of disorganized Italians when
compared to Germans?
It appears the general Jewish trait is cosmopolitanism, and to a
lesser degree, radicalism. Granted, there has been powerful
conservative Jewish impulses but these were confined among Jews and
Jewish issues. In other words, Orthodox Jews stick to their own kind,
their issues are their issues, and they neither care to nor want
interference or influence from or on the world outside.
So, the Jewish elements that do affect gentiles is Jewish
cosmopolitanism and radicalism. An orthodox Jew doesn't try to spread
Orthodox Judaism to other peoples but a radical Jews have tried to
spread communism. Orthodox Jews have little impact on the culture of
goyim but secularized Jews in the arts, media, and politics have left
an indelible mark of their vision and character. Another aspect of
Jewishness is their greater intellectual prowess that leads to rapid
achievements in such fields as academia, business, arts, and politics.
This influence has been both liberating and progressive as well as
destabilizing and alienating, especially for people who who came to
resent the newly arrived mass of immigrants'(say from Russia to
Germany or France)sudden and drastic impact on what the natives
consider their culture and destiny.
Of course this has been complicated by the fact that some Jews were
assimilationists and others became diehard radicals, some became
pro-government while others anti-government, and some became
capitalist tycoons while others became communist revolutionaries.
But, in the significant cases of Jewish capitalism and communism what
one senses is a loyalty that goes beyond national boundaries, with a
little or half-hearted respect for the traditions of the native
gentile populations. As many traditional values are stupid and
oppressive this Jewish influence can be welcomed as modern and
enlightening. But, can people live by ideology alone, whether it be
rooted in money or sense of justice?
I think we associate certain European countries with anti-semitism but
I think every nation and people have a potential for such prejudices,
especially if the nation happens to be homogenouos with a clear sense
of togetherness or a volkish sensibilty. America is ideal for Jews
because while many ethnic groups might distrust or even hate Jews, the
diverse gentile populations don't trust eachother enough to join
forces against the powerful Jewish elite. While the goyim might resent
and envy Jewish achievements and power in United States, it's highly
unlikely that Southern Baptists, Italian American Catholics, Blacks,
Hispanics, and Asians are likely to join forces in a united front
against the Jew. And, why should they if they believe in the American
ideal of meritocracy? If Jews have achieved riches and powers way
beyond their numbers thru hard work and superior intellect, isn't this
the American way. Of course, some don't agree and we have affirmative
action programs which limit, say, NY Jews from entering Ivy League
schools in greater numbers in favor of less intelligent gentiles from
Midwest smalltowns. Of course, some gentiles fear that because Jews
are more intelligent, Jews feel as though they have the right to
sneer, poke fun, trash, and desecrate the cultures of others. The Marx
Brothers movie Duck Soup is a perfect example of this unease gentiles
might feel, that Jews are nihilists who are above conventional
morality, just as Einstein's theory of relativitiy went beyond
conventional Newtonian understanding of the universe. When it's
simply a matter of scientific theory it doesn't matter much but things
of social impact are important in the minds of people. Some would
argue that Jews make fun of themselves as much as any other, and that
other peoples also have a long tradition of comedy and satire; after
all Jonathan Swift wasn't Jewish. But, Jewish humor seems wilder and
more aggressive because it's seen as criticism from an outsider.
Anyway, while I don't think Jews aren't any better or worse than
others, I think their impact on cultures the world over is
significantly DIFFERENT in quality and nuance than the influences of
other cultures. Also, because of the high caliber of Jewish
intellectuality, I think their influences, good and bad, become far
more consequential than that of others. For example, consider the
influence of former Stalinist historian Eric Hobsbawm. If he was just
another lame gentile historian he would have been shuffled aside as
academic hack. But, because of his brilliance, his pro-communist evil
has infiltrated into the unsuspecting minds of many.
I think one of the reasons why there was some clash between Japanese
and Jews in the early 90s was due to their different cultural
approaches and set of values. Japanese by and large are
traditionalist, volkish, and hierarchical whereas Jewish influence and
power in the world are cosmopolitan, supra-national,
anti-traditionalist, and liberal(except in the case of Israel which
can't afford tolerance in the present state of being surrounded by
Arab aggressors). Of course, one can argue that Japan is reasonably a
liberal and modern nation, and that its economy is world-based.
However, if we go beyond business(which in Japan is clannishly
organized and mercantilist anyway) and political expediency(Japanese
dependence on America, for example), Japanese still retain much of
their cultural impulses of the past. Western observers say that
Japanese still have a village mentality, dwell on their uniqueness,
their sense of honor, and define themselves in contrast to other
peoples. They are like Orthodox Jews but then again, Orthodox Jews are
not what defines Jewish power and influence in the world.
In contrast to the Japanese, secular Jews represent transcending
national boundaries, dismantling traditional modes of behavior and
allegiances. To the Japanese, Jews represent a very small percentage
of Americans with undue influence on American politics, culture, and
business. To even conceive of letting themselves be at the mercy of a
minority group upsets, even disgusts, the Japanese. Japanese think of
America as the great Yankee power, the empire of Douglas MacArthur and
John Wayne, now brought low by a cabal of disloyal internationalist
Jews who manipulate the American system for their narrow interests;
they see a once mighty gentile Christian nation led around on a leash
by its clever Jewish master who uses its power to open its national
borders and promote miscegenation to wipe out the racial identity and
pride that once distinguished the nation of Commodore Perry and
Charles Lindbergh. At its height, Japanese even wrote idiotic
best-sellers like IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE JEWS YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORLD,
which was so paranoid and looney that it even claimed Roosevelt was
Jewish. But it was a best-seller and was advertised in Japan's most
respected newspapers, and academics who knew better didn't protest
such slanderous spread of lies.
But, Jews have also seen Japan as a threat in the 80s. They saw the
rise of a homogenous, traditionalist, and fiercely nationalistic
society growing into a major power and what Japan represented was the
power of racial and national unity, of the volkish values, of
discipline and hierarchy, of conservative values; in other words, what
a nation can achieve by sticking together and controlling their own
destiny. Jews fear the Japanese as a bunch of feudalistic and
clannish tribe of modern day samurai who smile at and shakes hands
with the world but have no real value other than group loyality. They
see Japan as a male-dominated society where the population is kept
docile as children thru strick social ordering and thru mindless
soma-like influence of manga, videogames, and pachinko parlors which
keep the minds of people off important issues; in other words, stupid
child-like Japanese women would rather play pachinko all day or dye
their hair pink than march in the streets and demand real justice and
equality. Was Japanbashing in the media merely the manifestation of
American gentile prejudice or was there a Jewish element in the sheer
virulence it reached at its height in late 80s and early 90s?
Anyway, I think all such fears are nonsensical and let's all just get
along together and not nitpick about our differences and focus instead
on our common humanity. God Bless.
Joseph Hertzlinger
2003-11-23 09:09:21 UTC
Permalink
On 20 Nov 2003 13:12:41 -0800, Elena Nakashima
Post by Elena Nakashima
I think we associate certain European countries with anti-semitism
but I think every nation and people have a potential for such
prejudices, especially if the nation happens to be homogenouos with
a clear sense of togetherness or a volkish sensibilty. America is
ideal for Jews because while many ethnic groups might distrust or
even hate Jews, the diverse gentile populations don't trust each
other enough to join forces against the powerful Jewish elite.
While the goyim might resent and envy Jewish achievements and power
in United States, it's highly unlikely that Southern Baptists,
Italian American Catholics, Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians are likely
to join forces in a united front against the Jew.
It's Ethniklashistan!

See http://www.theonion.com/onion3723/west_bank.html
--
http://hertzlinger.blogspot.com
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